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next PZ lens test report: Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS

NEX 7 ultra-wide Sony NEX

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#1 Klaus

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:14 AM

Quite good ... apart from the usual centering issues:

http://www.opticalli...9-sony1018f4oss


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#2 vodanh1982

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:57 AM

I thought all new tests are on Nex-6.



#3 Klaus

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

I thought all new tests are on Nex-6.

 

No, there'll be a test of the NEX 6 vs NEX 7 but all mainstream tests will continue to be on the 7.


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#4 Faketastic

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:46 AM

No, there'll be a test of the NEX 6 vs NEX 7 but all mainstream tests will continue to be on the 7.

 

Why? This way we'll never have a good way of telling if the lens is ok at the image borders (because of the NEX-7 sensor).

I don't trust the tests done on this camera...



#5 Brightcolours

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

Hmm, I find that a bit odd too, keeping on testing the the Nex 7 which has known sensor issues (which affect lens performance). That keeps on making every test a test of the NEX 7 instead of the lens.



#6 Klaus

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:25 PM

The NEX 7 is the official flagship model. If we tested on the NEX 6, there would be similar questions why we don't test on the NEX 7. Testing on both is no option at this stage. Sony NEX is not THAT popular.


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#7 Faketastic

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:24 PM

The NEX 7 is the official flagship model. If we tested on the NEX 6, there would be similar questions why we don't test on the NEX 7. Testing on both is no option at this stage. Sony NEX is not THAT popular.

But do you want to test the lens or the camera (which you already did, right)?

From a measurement perspective this is just wrong and somewhat pigheaded from your side.

 

Sometimes I just wonder if you just dont want Sony to look bad..


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#8 Metalex

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:37 PM

But do you want to test the lens or the camera (which you already did, right)?

From a measurement perspective this is just wrong and somewhat pigheaded from your side.

 

Sometimes I just wonder if you just dont want Sony to look bad..

 

I have wondered the same myself.  There seems to be a certain negativity towards the NEX system on this site.  The de-centering problems don't seem to be a widespread reported issue, yet this site suggests there is a problem with Sony QC.  Certainly I have not had any de-centered NEX lenses - I always test for it when I get a new lens.

 

If the reason for refusing to test on the NEX-6 rather than the flawed sensor of the NEX-7 is that the NEX-7 is the flagship, then why are Canon APS-C tests not conducted on the 7D?



#9 Brightcolours

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:33 PM

The NEX 7 is the official flagship model. If we tested on the NEX 6, there would be similar questions why we don't test on the NEX 7. Testing on both is no option at this stage. Sony NEX is not THAT popular.

That question (of why not tested on the Nex 7) is very easily answered (problems with the sensor construction, making life very difficult on certain lenses). You could even mention that in every review.

 

You test on the Canon EOS 50D and Canon EOS 5D mk II, neither is a flagship model. 

 

It will remain a problem with every lens tested, when you keep testing on the Nex 7. We want to know how a lens performs, not what a certain model adds (or loses).



#10 Doroga

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

I tested SEL 50/1.8 in shop and first sample had a soft corner even at f/4.

Quite interestingis that lens passed local fast test with defocused image well - blur was very symmetric.

Second sample was good.
 

My 16-50 has small assymetry in defocus image and two corners are slightly softer then other two.



#11 vodanh1982

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

As a reader, I always keep in mind that the corner results are Nex-7 specific. Unless there is a proof that the results on Nex-6 and Nex-7 are the same, all of the tests on Nex-7 are valueless to me. It is a waste of time and money.



#12 Sammy

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:17 PM

The NEX 7 is the official flagship model. If we tested on the NEX 6, there would be similar questions why we don't test on the NEX 7. Testing on both is no option at this stage.

Your very own data (and those of others) demonstrated that the NEX-7 is not a good body for testing (flawed sensor...).

Strange that you stick to using it.



#13 Klaus

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

Ahem, please stay real here.

At the time the NEX 7 was released we were cheered to started testing on it immediately.

I also didn't use it for testing because it was apparent that there might be problems.

A 24mp APS-C sensor is highly ambitious just by the numbers. The center resolution will always be much better than the outer region. This alone is not specific to Sony and will show up as a problem on all systems eventually - this is not about us here. Sony was first to push it like that.

 

Whether the 24mp sensor has specific issues is something that we have to investigate. I just had too little time for this lately.

 

You are right that I am somewhat negative about NEX in general. But this is less so because of the camera - you may remember my rather enthusiastic comments in the beginning - but because of the lens centering issues that we are facing: the defect rate is the worst among the systems that we test. The manufacturing quality IS a decision point for consumers so we have to communicate this. Existing NEX users have a problem with this - this is just normal since they tend to be loyal because of their system decision. 

 

Now as far as the flagship discussion is concerned - the reason for choosing a camera for testing is taken at a point in time. 

The EOS 5D, D3x, 50D, NEX7, GX1, X-E1/Pro1, NX200, D7000, A900 were all the highest resolution cameras at the time of purchase. You all know that we will not jump ship once a new model emerges. A decision is valid for about 3 years since the investment has to pay off first.

 

And regarding the 10-24/4 ... the MTFs are actually quite good. Same goes for our rating (for a lens in this class).

The 50/1.8 is also very decent and the 35/1.8 looked promising ... apart from its centering issue so this one is on the way to Sony service once more.

 

Whether you think that the tests are useless or now is, of course, up to you. We just test following the same standards across all systems. 


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#14 wayfarers

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

Klaus, just about half of the Sony E 10-18mm lens tests I have seen say something along the lines: "the lens is clad in high quality plastic, including the filter threads", the other half, including you, say: "It has an all-metal body". Could you please confirm that the lens has all metal body? Thanks!



#15 Klaus

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:41 AM

Klaus, just about half of the Sony E 10-18mm lens tests I have seen say something along the lines: "the lens is clad in high quality plastic, including the filter threads", the other half, including you, say: "It has an all-metal body". Could you please confirm that the lens has all metal body? Thanks!

 

Well, the outer shell is made of metal - I didn't use a metal detector here to check but it just 'feels' like it is metal. Some inner portions are certainly made of plastics. The lens front enclosure is plastics but this quite normal across the manufacturers I'd say - but this is something you normally don't touch anyway. I can't remember whether the filter thread is metal or plastics but it's likely that it is plastics (like on the 35/1.8).


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#16 Brightcolours

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:54 AM

Ahem, please stay real here.

At the time the NEX 7 was released we were cheered to started testing on it immediately.

I also didn't use it for testing because it was apparent that there might be problems.

A 24mp APS-C sensor is highly ambitious just by the numbers. The center resolution will always be much better than the outer region. This alone is not specific to Sony and will show up as a problem on all systems eventually - this is not about us here. Sony was first to push it like that.

 

Whether the 24mp sensor has specific issues is something that we have to investigate. I just had too little time for this lately.

Pardon? You were the one who found that the Nex 7 does have specific issues with specific lenses, and you have shown that. That the center resolution will be higher has nothing to do with that. 

You even bought a 2nd NEX7 because of the problem, just to verify that it was no sample issue.

 

http://forum.photozo...-results/page-2

 

It is well known that the Nex 5N corrected the issues the Nex 5 showed in the corners with specific lenses, and it is well known (partly by your testing) that the Nex 7 has real corner issues with specific lenses.

 

That is what is real. I just have the feeling that you just do not feel like starting again with a different body. But the results you get testing with the Nex 7 will remain useless as lens tests, as we never know from lens model to lens model what is due to lens resolution and what is due to the problematic sensor design. And is photozone not about testing lenses, instead of bodies?



#17 Klaus

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:26 AM

Yes, I strongly suspect that there is a issue but as some of you pointed out I haven't proven it.

 

If there is an issue, this doesn't invalidate the tests though. It just means that you have different scaling factors compared to the 16mp sensors - both in the center as well as at the borders. e.g. In the center you may have a difference of -say- +25%, at the borders it may be +5% and at the corners it could be -5%.

 

Or in other words - the lens ranking will not change just by testing on the NEX 6.


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#18 Marco

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

Come down, it's a review, not a declaration of the pope. There are many review sites for Sony NEX lenses on the net and there still more images. Actually I'm looking more at the images than on the reviews.



#19 Faketastic

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:00 PM

Yes, I strongly suspect that there is a issue but as some of you pointed out I haven't proven it.

 

If there is an issue, this doesn't invalidate the tests though. It just means that you have different scaling factors compared to the 16mp sensors - both in the center as well as at the borders. e.g. In the center you may have a difference of -say- +25%, at the borders it may be +5% and at the corners it could be -5%.

 

Or in other words - the lens ranking will not change just by testing on the NEX 6.

How can you be sure of this? If the error is linear for all focal lenghts, then yes. But the error seem to be higher the wider you go- then no, a scaling factor will not do. If you had the time to do the test on the NEX-6 too this would be very valuable in understanding the problem for us aspiring to buy the lens.



#20 Faketastic

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:01 PM

Come down, it's a review, not a declaration of the pope. There are many review sites for Sony NEX lenses on the net and there still more images. Actually I'm looking more at the images than on the reviews.

 Photozones reviews are the most important out there. I would like to know before I pay $1000 and to me thats more important than what the pope ever says.







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