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Your favourite feature of the D850?

D850 favourite features

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#41 toni-a

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:49 PM

Well a close camera to the one we want myself and Markus does actually exist, it's the medium format phase one trichromatic its base ISO is 35, what is more interesting is how did they get to 35 ?

you know a sensor is made of photosensors in front of which there's red or green or blue filter that lens only light of its color pass, a groupement of three adjacent photosensors of each color will define a pixel, of course every photosensor is used three times for mre resolution, the color filter in front of the photosensor blocks close to 1 f stop of light, that's why Leica monochrome  sensor has one f stop advantage.

in the trichromatic sensor the red, green and blue filters have stronger colors, the red is more red and the  green is greener, this way more light is blocked but the colors are more acurate, base ISO dropped from 50 to 35 however its color rendition is claimed better than any other commercially available camera sensor

 

https://www.phaseone.com/trichromatic



#42 JoJu

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:43 PM

So you gave the answer yourself: Put a ND0.8 filter in front of your camera and your base ISO 100 goes down to ISO 12.5, bang, even better than Phase One.  :P

 

But the colors of the trichromatic are massive, as well as the resolution of Phase One monochromatic is superb.



#43 toni-a

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:59 PM

So you gave the answer yourself: Put a ND0.8 filter in front of your camera and your base ISO 100 goes down to ISO 12.5, bang, even better than Phase One. :P

But the colors of the trichromatic are massive, as well as the resolution of Phase One monochromatic is superb.

ND filters are amazing but they only work when you carry them in your bag and mount them on the lens...
A 35mm equivalent or an affordable equivalent to phase one trichromatic would be a dream for any landscape photographer even if it has poor high ISO performance

#44 thxbb12

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:02 PM

Usability?

 

But to get sharp shots with ISO 6, a tripod will be the only thing to use. I think, ISO 6 is much more limiting than a software based solution will be - which, btw was just impossible 13 years ago. A device like Arsenal would have come in a pretty big box, additional power extension cable and a couple of harddrives, each a massive 200 MB big.


Usability?

 

But to get sharp shots with ISO 6, a tripod will be the only thing to use. I think, ISO 6 is much more limiting than a software based solution will be - which, btw was just impossible 13 years ago. A device like Arsenal would have come in a pretty big box, additional power extension cable and a couple of harddrives, each a massive 200 MB big.

 

Usability as in being able to use a f1.2 lens at f1.2 in bright sunlight for instance.

I don't always carry ND filters and even if I do, I might not have enough time to shot a spontaneous moment because it takes to long to grab the filter and put it on.


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#45 thxbb12

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:10 PM

That wasn't intentional. And no, I don't think a breathing workshop would have helped. Nor would IBIS (or VR)

 

Especially for you: Nikon D7200, AF-S DX 16-85 VR at 52 mm and f/7.1, ISO 400, 5 sec exposure. ND 3.0 filter and Leica tabletop tripod with tiny Markins ballhead.

 

I'm not sure what your point is by now, mine was just: shots like this would require a little less effort with a camera that could do really low ISO. I wouldn't have to remember taking the ND filters (the right sizes), wouldn't have to compose the scene first, focus, do a test shot, then mount the filter, adjust exposure and shoot. With low ISO, I could save some time and (most notably) still have a usable viewfinder image.

 

I actually wonder why no manufacturer has come up with an ILC body featuring a built-in ND filter. Something similar to what some compact cameras provide (such as the Sony RX100).

For example, a mechanism that would pull the ND filter in front of the sensor (just behind the opening of the mount) when a button is pressed or a setting is enabled. If compact cameras can do it, why not ILCs?

 

The same concept could be used to keep dust out of the sensor when switching lenses.

For instance, when the lens is removed from the body, a film/layer/curtain is automatically pulled out to protect the camera's inside and thus the sensor. Why has no one done it yet?

Dust on sensor would then become a thing of the past.


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#46 mst

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:33 PM

I guess it's a question of available space in the camera body. Plus, it would be an additional layer of glas wioth at least some amount of refraction, so it'd be part of the whole optical system. That's why I guess it would have to be two filters, a clean one and the ND one in order to keep the whole optical system at the same level (similar to high-end tele lenses, that allow drop-in filters and need to have a clean filter in there).

 

In terms of dust, I'd be afraid that it just moves the dust issue to a different layer. However, a protective glass cover is what Sigma uses in their own DSLRs, so in principal the idea seems to work.


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#47 JoJu

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:56 PM

ND filters are amazing but they only work when you carry them in your bag and mount them on the lens...
A 35mm equivalent or an affordable equivalent to phase one trichromatic would be a dream for any landscape photographer even if it has poor high ISO performance

 

If there are any "landscape only and nothing else" photogs around, they probably go the PhaseOne path already. I couldn't afford it, but I'm still puzzled how many are there. Landscape's not primarily low ISO, but high detail, color depth as well as high DR.



#48 JoJu

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:08 PM

I guess it's a question of available space in the camera body. Plus, it would be an additional layer of glas wioth at least some amount of refraction, so it'd be part of the whole optical system. That's why I guess it would have to be two filters, a clean one and the ND one in order to keep the whole optical system at the same level (similar to high-end tele lenses, that allow drop-in filters and need to have a clean filter in there).

 

In terms of dust, I'd be afraid that it just moves the dust issue to a different layer. However, a protective glass cover is what Sigma uses in their own DSLRs, so in principal the idea seems to work.

 

Valid points, especially the two filters. I imagine a half darkened stripe of optical glass to be moved from left to right. Adding not only one, but two moving surfaces (dust and wear, particles, oil...) in a very small volume of a camera body. Making it close to impossible to focus because of 10 stops amplification (or less, Fujifilm's ND filter coming with the 56/1.2 APD is ND8, so only 3 stops).

 

Sigma DSLR? Or the mirrorless sd quattro types? Anyway, most mirrorless cameras do have a glass element in front of the sensor. 

See Lensrentals Blog:

           The Glass in the Path: Sensor Stacks and Adapted Lenses        

           Sensor Stack Thickness: When Does It Matter?        

           Sensor Stack Thickness Part III: The Summary        

           A Thinner Sensor Stack        



#49 mst

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:16 PM

Sigma DSLR? Or the mirrorless sd quattro types?


DSLRs. See here for example:

https://www.dpreview...iews/sigmasd1/3

(bottom of the page)
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#50 JoJu

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 10:21 PM

Thanks. I can understand now why they kept that filter in their sd quattro - otherwise the Sigma lenses wouldn't work properly. It's not a bad idea to keep the whole compartment dust free. I just have tiny doubts that in the long term dust stays out this system.



#51 Brightcolours

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:49 AM

Valid points, especially the two filters. I imagine a half darkened stripe of optical glass to be moved from left to right. Adding not only one, but two moving surfaces (dust and wear, particles, oil...) in a very small volume of a camera body. Making it close to impossible to focus because of 10 stops amplification (or less, Fujifilm's ND filter coming with the 56/1.2 APD is ND8, so only 3 stops).

 

Sigma DSLR? Or the mirrorless sd quattro types? Anyway, most mirrorless cameras do have a glass element in front of the sensor. 

See Lensrentals Blog:

 

 

All digital cameras have glass in front of the sensor, JoJu.



#52 JoJu

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:53 AM

But not many shortly after the flange, BC.

 

And also not many have a glass element a couple of mm thick.



#53 Brightcolours

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:54 AM

(similar to high-end tele lenses, that allow drop-in filters and need to have a clean filter in there).

 

My Tamron SP 500mm f8 has small screw in filters, and  clear filter. How high end  :lol:



#54 mst

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:21 AM

My Tamron SP 500mm f8 has small screw in filters, and  clear filter. How high end  :lol:


It's actually a feature I wish more lenses offered. Nikon once had it in the AF-D 300/4.
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#55 thxbb12

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:30 AM

 

All sensors have glass in front of them, I'm aware of that.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a mechanism that would automatically protect the sensor itself so it would not be exposed when changing lenses.

It would prevent (or at least help prevent) dust from coming in and reaching the sensor.

Dust is obviously becoming more and more critical with high resolution sensors and keeping sensors clean of dust is not easy to achieve when often changing lenses in outdoor environments with potentially not clement weather.


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#56 thxbb12

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

It's actually a feature I wish more lenses offered. Nikon once had it in the AF-D 300/4.

 

That's what I'm talking about, but in the camera body rather than in the lens.


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#57 mst

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:38 AM

That's what I'm talking about, but in the camera body rather than in the lens.


For ND, yes. However, when using polarizers, in-lens is probably less of a hassle ;)
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#58 thxbb12

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 02:44 PM

For ND, yes. However, when using polarizers, in-lens is probably less of a hassle ;)

 

Yes, I was talking about ND filters ;-)


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#59 toni-a

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:27 PM

Wonder why rear gel filters aren't that popular and only a few lenses take rear gel filters, a rear ND gel filter would fit any lens that takes gel filters, you course gel filters have limited durability but still

#60 JoJu

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 08:39 PM

All sensors have glass in front of them, I'm aware of that.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about a mechanism that would automatically protect the sensor itself so it would not be exposed when changing lenses.

It would prevent (or at least help prevent) dust from coming in and reaching the sensor.

Dust is obviously becoming more and more critical with high resolution sensors and keeping sensors clean of dust is not easy to achieve when often changing lenses in outdoor environments with potentially not clement weather.

 

By putting in another moving element - and that's what I WAS already talking about ;)  - you'd just increase the ammount of glass or other surfaces receiving, carrying and shaking dust inside the sensor. At one moment that mechanism has to open up - and where do you think, will the dust go then? It's not as if that mechanical element would act as dust magnet and keep the particles fixed.

 

Also, sliding doors always suffer of wear. If no dust comes from outside, little particles from the guiding elements will fall in the then difficult to clean volume in between sensor glass and "shutting curtain". I rather prefer good access to the sensor's surface and clean it from time to time. Usually these particle are only critical on bright areas with not much structure - that makes it easy to  repair.







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