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#1 Klaus

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:23 AM

Delayed Reviews:
Sigma 100-400mm ... defective image stabilizer
Leica 8-18mm ... decentered upper left corner
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#2 goran h

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:30 AM

Hard to understand how it is possible to produce such shit year after year. The Leica label doesn’t mean anything here.


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#3 Rover

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 12:37 PM

It is said that the stabilizer in the Sigma 100-400 C is not good anyway. Maybe it's just the way it is? (which would be a shame, anyway, but could not be helped)



#4 dave's clichés

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 02:34 PM

  Sigma:  Defective as in it doesn't work?

 

  Non German made Leica?



#5 JoJu

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 03:52 PM

  Sigma:  Defective as in it doesn't work?

 

  Non German made Leica?

 

No, "defective" as in "it needs a dave and his D.I.Y. skills to bring it back into business" :lol: 

 

I would be very amazed if Leica made the µ 4/3 lenses in Germany. I guess it's the same as it was with the "collaboration" of Zeiss and Yashica/Kyocera, when Zeiss suddenly was made in Japan 30 years ago. It's a mistake to rely on brands - or would you buy a Meyer Görlitz Kickstarter lens these days? 



#6 Brightcolours

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 04:49 PM

Or a made in China Nikkor?



#7 Klaus

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:29 PM

It is said that the stabilizer in the Sigma 100-400 C is not good anyway. Maybe it's just the way it is? (which would be a shame, anyway, but could not be helped)

 

The OS does its usual humming noise when activated but there is no stabilization effect whatsoever. Nada. Zilch. 


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#8 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:08 AM

Apparently the lens was not the best example in well made firmware. There are a couple of firmware upgrades already available, see https://www.sigma-gl...enses/firmware/

 

Lucky if one has a dock to update it.

 

I also suspect, the OS actually is working only in exposure mode, not in "keep the finder view steady" mode. I'm not sure if that can be changed via dock, but I think, I could change it in the 150-600 Sports custom settings. What happens if you take a picture @400 mm and 1/30 shutter speed? Blurred? More blurred than without OS?



#9 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:52 AM

Or a made in China Nikkor?


You think, that's any worse than made in Thailand?  ;)  How many Canon lenses are still manufactured in Japan?



#10 dave's clichés

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 09:08 AM

Apparently the lens was not the best example in well made firmware. There are a couple of firmware upgrades already available, see https://www.sigma-gl...enses/firmware/

 

Lucky if one has a dock to update it.

 

I also suspect, the OS actually is working only in exposure mode, not in "keep the finder view steady" mode. I'm not sure if that can be changed via dock, but I think, I could change it in the 150-600 Sports custom settings. What happens if you take a picture @400 mm and 1/30 shutter speed? Blurred? More blurred than without OS?

   A half press of the shutter wakes up the OS, in viewfinder OS mode you would hear it humming,

   

in shutter only OS you are unlikely to hear anything as there's is "mirror/shutter/diaphragm/OS"....there and back covering the relatively quiet and brief OS action.

 

 Here, the  OS system is running at it's frequency, seemingly without any Gyroscopic compensation.

 

  Out of interest:     Modern gyros are extremely small "wafers of silicon shaped a little like tuning forks" they work on the principle that when they experience an accelerating force (or any movement) the thin wafer bends (due to inertia) and a voltage is produced.....(much like the old ceramic record pick ups).  With three of these gyros one in each plane and you have the ability to compensate in three dimensions. 

   It's been a real revolution in stabilization..gone are the old heavy spinning motors of the mechanic gyros.......... these have low current consumption, low weight and are physically very small........ they are mostly integrated within the surrounding micro circuitry.

 

   Stabilizing  the fourth dimension does of course require different techniques......and is better approached by chemical means!

 

   Actually, I've always wondered why stabilized binoculars have not become more popular, 6-8 times magnification is about the practical maximum magnification without OS, while some stabilized binoculars can be steady at more than 20 times magnification.



#11 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 10:16 AM

I'm not certain wether this function could be activated in camera or in the lens. I know I read something about the different efficiency (which was hightest when the OS didn't have to stabilize the finder view). Or was that with Fuji lenses? I'm somehow confused now.

 

Do you know how popular stabilized binoculars are? I could not tell. I guess if they are less popular then because these types mostly are more expensive and in higher grade binoculars which themselvs are more expensive - and if you're watching birds with them, you either use a tripod or a longer FL - and then a monocular.



#12 dave's clichés

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 10:54 AM

I'm not certain wether this function could be activated in camera or in the lens. I know I read something about the different efficiency (which was hightest when the OS didn't have to stabilize the finder view). Or was that with Fuji lenses? I'm somehow confused now.

 

Do you know how popular stabilized binoculars are? I could not tell. I guess if they are less popular then because these types mostly are more expensive and in higher grade binoculars which themselvs are more expensive - and if you're watching birds with them, you either use a tripod or a longer FL - and then a monocular.

  That's right JoJu.......Tamron's VC is said to be at it's most efficient in mode 3....active in exposure only.

 

   No, I'm not sure how well OS binoculars sell.......Canon and Fuji make them......no doubt they are popular on Warships and the like......   tripods not being very effective on board.

      ...but it remains a small market.....and I can't say that I have ever seen a pair used in anger....although a friend once told me he had an older mechanical gyro pair that ate batteries!

    ..the basic Canon 8X30mm aren't too expensive, however the 18X50mm cost around €1099..........and that's grey market.....

 

    But then warships are grey for the most part!



#13 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:28 AM

To complete your information: Zeiss, Nikon, Steiner, Svarovski, Leica, and more also have this stabilisation feature. And all of them are not cheap.



#14 Klaus

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:22 PM

I've just noticed that you can actually customize the OS behaviour beyond the standard settings using the C1/C2 custom switches. You have to use the USB dock for this.

I just did so and noticed a very marginal stabilization in the viewfinder - maybe. Will have to verify this tomorrow. 

I did sample images and I noticed more blurred images than usual. If that thing is working, it can't be that effective in any case (and I'm not talking about 1/30s at 400mm here).


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#15 dave's clichés

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:34 PM

  IMHO.....there's an untapped market for an enterprising Chinese company to make an affordable pair of OS binoculars...after all they make some very decent ordinary ones. A  birdwatching naturist friend kept a pair on every window-sill......he had Steiners, Zeiss and many others........I tried them all and frankly apart from the magnification and exit diameter, I could find much between them.......

 

My humble brand X Chinese ones that I bought for €30 twenty years ago still look good to me, bright and well aligned (often a problem with low cost bins)....if they were coupled with OS? they would sell like hot cakes!



#16 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

Funky.

 

Must be one of these Australian versions...

 

:lol:

 

Seriously: I'm not the biggest fan of OS in dynamic view mode. Finder view is more stable, yes, but depeding on the OS/VR, the whole stuff jumps if I'm shooting in continuous mode, so here I do prefer no VR or only in the moment of the actual picture.

 

Because: There a re limits of maximum shale to correct. If I release in "finder stabilisation mode" when one of the Gyros is just at it's limit, in the worst case that will add a bit of unwanted shake. It's a trade-off to make and in some occassions I decide consciously not to have the full benefit of maximum optical stabilisation, but a calmer finder view.



#17 Klaus

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:17 PM

I can follow that argument till 200mm. Beyond I want to have a substantially stabilized viewfinder.

At 400mm the viewfinder stabilization is worse than on the 150-600mm at 600mm.


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#18 JoJu

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:08 PM

You convinced me. I tried my only Sigma OS lens (24-105 Art) and it was calming down the finder view. With the dock, I could not adjust more than AF-points, the rest was in grey.

 

I think, your copy of the 100-400 is out of order. I also can follow your reasoning about necessity of OS beyond 200mm, but I see the finder image jumping, so I'm not sure what happens and if the picture will be sharp and within the chosen frame.



#19 miro

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:16 AM

Or a made in China Nikkor?

:-) 

Beter buy Samyang realy made in Korea instead of fake ones



#20 miro

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:30 AM

In terms of OS I still prefer the classical one

http://forum.optical...-stable-tripod/

 

1. reliable - One tripod for 15 yeers

2. Applies to all lenses and cameras, including my Telescope and binocular.

3. Professional grade

  - can be used in harsh environment - Little care only when  used in sand and salt water. Clean up is required.

  - gives always the needed F-stops

  - repeatable results

  - good F-stop numbers

4. Extra features 

  - keeps viewfinder steady. :-)

 

I have few lenses with VR IS - all of them are in 300 + range and they are fun to use it but I never look of this feature seriously






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