[joachim]

[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1285513145' post='3251']

As we all know, the 16mm f/2.8 prime for Sony's Nex cameras get quite a bit of bad press from the reviews. But how field-relevant are these claims?



Comparing a Nex-5 + 16mm f/2.8 to one of the best FF DSLR landscape/wide combos, the 5D MkII + 24 1.4L II, is a bit of a strange comparison. Yes, we all know which is the winner (or do we?), but let's see how big or small the differences are (see large image in link):



[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/genotypewriter/5025935854/"]http://www.flickr.co...ter/5025935854/[/url]





Hope this was useful in some way... please share your own views <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[/quote]



Hi,



looks interesting. How about also giving a comparison of the centre portion?

[genotypewriter]

[quote name='joachim' timestamp='1285586834' post='3281']

looks interesting. How about also giving a comparison of the centre portion?

[/quote]



Thanks... in short I'm too lazy to do a test on that <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Mainly because it serves a very little purpose. The systems here are too different to be compared against each other in a standard way, looking at center and corner crops. We already know the center's better than the corners so what I've shown is like the worst-case scenario.



Also, whether we think the 16 is good or bad, there really isn't any other lens that's comparable in size, focal length and speed-wise. But if portability/AF is not a requirement, then you know the absolute best lenses for IQ out there anyway, right? <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[wim]

[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1285594303' post='3288']

Thanks... in short I'm too lazy to do a test on that <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Mainly because it serves a very little purpose. The systems here are too different to be compared against each other in a standard way, looking at center and corner crops. We already know the center's better than the corners so what I've shown is like the worst-case scenario.



Also, whether we think the 16 is good or bad, there really isn't any other lens that's comparable in size, focal length and speed-wise. But if portability/AF is not a requirement, then you know the absolute best lenses for IQ out there anyway, right? <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[/quote]

Yes, if portability isn't, it's L all the way, if AF isn't, than it's TS-E 17L, TS-24L II, TS-E 45, MP-E 65, TS-E 90 <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[dave9t5]

[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1285552387' post='3278']

Perhaps... at all other times, I'd have said no but the Nex is a pocket camera after all, so it makes sense to compare it to other pocket cameras, when one knows exactly what they'll be using it for. But you have to keep in mind that the Nex has a natural ~3 stop light advantage ((365sq.mm-44sq.mm)/44sq.mm = ~7.3 = 2 3/4 stops), although externally they're the same form factor. With the 16mm 2.8 fitted it becomes a ~2 stop advantage against the LX3's 24mm-equivalent f/2 lens, plus the extra 40% pixels that'll result in a smoother digital image.







Oh yes I too love the f/1.4 look, the light gathering ability, stopped-down sharpness, closer-focusing, better focusing, L colours, etc. of the 24LII too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> But for what the Nex-5 + 16mm prime is (i.e. a pocket camera), it's not as bad as people think it is.



~US$3400 is the price difference between the 5D2+24LII (~US$4100) vs. Nex-5+16mm kit (US$650) on B&H, if one is going to get either one of these combos <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[/quote]



Yep, the NEX is an APS-C pocket camera and right now, if I was in the market for an LX-3 type camera, it would be hard to ignore the NEX. There is nothing else in size category that comes close (at least on specifications) in the wide-angle realm: >28mm (equivalent), fast lens, small, large sensor, good price.



All others fall short:

• LX-3 types (Pana LX-x Canon S9x and G1x) - compact, but very small sensor
  
  
• μ4/3 - small sensor (for DOF purposes), only expensive and bulky zooms wider than 28mm
  
  
• APS-C SLR - only one I can think of is Pentax K-x + DA15/4 Ltd - small for SLR but not really small, slowish lens
  
  
• APS-C Rangefinder - Leica M series, a bit price-y...
  
  

[genotypewriter]

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1285610055' post='3299']

Yep, the NEX is an APS-C pocket camera and right now, if I was in the market for an LX-3 type camera, it would be hard to ignore the NEX. There is nothing else in size category that comes close (at least on specifications) in the wide-angle realm: >28mm (equivalent), fast lens, small, large sensor, good price.



All others fall short:

• LX-3 types (Pana LX-x Canon S9x and G1x) - compact, but very small sensor
  
  
• μ4/3 - small sensor (for DOF purposes), only expensive and bulky zooms wider than 28mm
  
  
• APS-C SLR - only one I can think of is Pentax K-x + DA15/4 Ltd - small for SLR but not really small, slowish lens
  
  
• APS-C Rangefinder - Leica M series, a bit price-y...
  
  

[/quote]



I've [url="http://www.flickr.com/people/genotypewriter/"]used many[/url] cameras. The Nex-5 + 16/2.8 was the easiest decision and one of the best ones I've made.



Btw, the Leica M8 has a 1.3x crop factor (very slightly smaller than the Canon 1D-series 1.3x APS-H cameras) and the M9 has a full frame sensor.



If you don't mind exploring things a bit... check out the Sigma DP-series APS-C compacts. The Foveon X3 sensor has a low number of pixels but compared to Bayer sensor image, they really have the [url="http://www.flickriver.com/photos/seng_merrill/popular-interesting/"]claimed 3x resolution[/url] and they are not as demanding on the lenses as Bayer sensors are (i.e. Sigma lenses are good enough). The Sigma cameras come with quirks so do your [url="http://www.flickr.com/groups/sigma-dp1/"]research well[/url] and check them out if you don't mind an adventure.



I don't think you should be looking at DSLRs if you're in the market for a compact or vice versa. You'll end up with buyer's remorse <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Just think about the form factor that will help you keep the camera with you and then go for it. Getting a better quality camera doesn't at all mean that you're going to take good pictures with it, especially if you don't have it with you.



Good luck with the hunt! <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[dave9t5]

[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1285640037' post='3304']

I've [url="http://www.flickr.com/people/genotypewriter/"]used many[/url] cameras. The Nex-5 + 16/2.8 was the easiest decision and one of the best ones I've made.



Btw, the Leica M8 has a 1.3x crop factor (very slightly smaller than the Canon 1D-series 1.3x APS-H cameras) and the M9 has a full frame sensor.



If you don't mind exploring things a bit... check out the Sigma DP-series APS-C compacts. The Foveon X3 sensor has a low number of pixels but compared to Bayer sensor image, they really have the [url="http://www.flickriver.com/photos/seng_merrill/popular-interesting/"]claimed 3x resolution[/url] and they are not as demanding on the lenses as Bayer sensors are (i.e. Sigma lenses are good enough). The Sigma cameras come with quirks so do your [url="http://www.flickr.com/groups/sigma-dp1/"]research well[/url] and check them out if you don't mind an adventure.



I don't think you should be looking at DSLRs if you're in the market for a compact or vice versa. You'll end up with buyer's remorse <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Just think about the form factor that will help you keep the camera with you and then go for it. Getting a better quality camera doesn't at all mean that you're going to take good pictures with it, especially if you don't have it with you.



Good luck with the hunt! <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



GTW

[/quote]



Oops, I knew that about the M-series...should've wrote "large-sensor".



I already have both a compact digital (Ricoh GX-8 (22/28-85mm)) and a Pentax dSLR (with a variety of fast compact primes) but I've never been truly happy with the digital options available for (size, cost, weight) as I came from using mostly a small Pentax film SLR with small K24/2.8 and M20/4 primes + Yashica T4 Super 35/2.8 ("full-format") pocket cam.



So, the NEX is quite exciting. Compact with largish-sensor like the T4 Super, and a fastish small 24mm (eq.) option.

[marco]

After playing around with the 16/2.8 my opinion is that a strong field curvature is producing the bad corners. If you do MF you can easily get the corners sharp at 2.8. Have you focused on the woman? And is there not a Canon lens with a similar problem? ;-) I don't say that the 16/2.8 is the best since sliced bread but it is good enough for may tasks.

[Guest]

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1285680101' post='3322']So, the NEX is quite exciting. Compact with largish-sensor like the T4 Super, and a fastish small 24mm (eq.) option.[/quote]



Exciting it is, but plagued by serious shortcomings. To quote dpreview:"In conclusion, the NEX system shows a great deal of promise but we'd strongly advise waiting for the next generation of products."

[Klaus]

[quote name='Sammy' timestamp='1285822158' post='3379']

Exciting it is, but plagued by serious shortcomings. To quote dpreview:"In conclusion, the NEX system shows a great deal of promise but we'd strongly advise waiting for the next generation of products."

[/quote]



This does really depend on your usage profile.

I have zero issues with this camera but I've no need to change secondary settings all the time and frankly I don't think that most do.

Adjust the aperture/speed and exposure correction is as easy as on the GF-1.

You've to go into the menu system to change ISO, AF/drive mode and WB but just often do you do that ?

[joachim]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1285827765' post='3381']

You've to go into the menu system to change ISO, AF/drive mode and WB but just often do you do that ?

[/quote]



I am afraid, I do change AF and WB quite frequently and ISO occasionally. Luckily all of them have a direct access button on my E-P1. Placing a tag for the right WB in the RAW-file at the picture taking stage, saves udles of time at the post-processing stage <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



What I find annoying about the Sony is the lack of a hot-shoe. A Metz 54-MZ4i on an E-P1 makes such a nice and unbalanced combo <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />. To be honest the Metz balances better on my E-300, there is no question. Though everything put together I surprisingly often end up with the Metz on-top of my Pen. Right now I am in a phase: If I want a flash, I mean it.



But I don't want to bad-mouth the Sony for you. I can see its appeal. If it works for you it works for you. Nobody can argue with that. Any real pictures to share?