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"Stoopid" Camera Engineering Flaws
#21
I'd like to see some simple things (Canon user, btw):



- I use the option with focus button (*) and the shutter button (the big one on top) are separate. I don't understand why the (*) button has to be sooo small and why it couldn't be more ergo in placement and shape.



- I have an old slr/c where just about everything you need is external. Including MLU. Very old school but simple and practical. Let's see more of this.



- While on the slr/c, it has a long exposure mode that produces amazing results even by today's standards. It basically takes many frames and dark channel subtracts them. The downside of it is it's difficult to use in many situations (10 year old technology) . I don't see why this hasn't been copied and improved?



- Finally, I always thought a custom reset feature, something that puts the camera into a predefined settings position, would be nice.
#22
[quote name='mike' timestamp='1281048928' post='1528']

I'd like to see some simple things (Canon user, btw):



- I use the option with focus button (*) and the shutter button (the big one on top) are separate. I don't understand why the (*) button has to be sooo small and why it couldn't be more ergo in placement and shape.



- I have an old slr/c where just about everything you need is external. Including MLU. Very old school but simple and practical. Let's see more of this.



- While on the slr/c, it has a long exposure mode that produces amazing results even by today's standards. It basically takes many frames and dark channel subtracts them. The downside of it is it's difficult to use in many situations (10 year old technology) . I don't see why this hasn't been copied and improved?



- Finally, I always thought a custom reset feature, something that puts the camera into a predefined settings position, would be nice.

[/quote]



Canon allows all manner of other things to be put on custom buttons, but not MLU. That's definitely stooopid.



Nikon had a very useful shake-reduction system called BSS (Best Shot Selector) in some of the Coolpixen: It could take up to 10 pictures in a row and choose the least shaken one (or at least be pretty good about it). It was like having IS for static subjects, and it would combine well with actual IS. It doesn't seem to have made it into current Coolpixen, let alone SLRs. Maybe i should look into making a Lightroom export for thisSmile



The placement of the ISO button on the 450D - 550D is really awkward.



-Lars
#23
[quote name='larsrc' timestamp='1281071417' post='1533']

Canon allows all manner of other things to be put on custom buttons, but not MLU. That's definitely stooopid.



Nikon had a very useful shake-reduction system called BSS (Best Shot Selector) in some of the Coolpixen: It could take up to 10 pictures in a row and choose the least shaken one (or at least be pretty good about it). It was like having IS for static subjects, and it would combine well with actual IS. It doesn't seem to have made it into current Coolpixen, let alone SLRs. Maybe i should look into making a Lightroom export for thisSmile



The placement of the ISO button on the 450D - 550D is really awkward.



-Lars

[/quote]

Just to add a comment:



Most dslrs, if not all, use black frame subtraction, or can use black frame subtraction (it generally is an option in the menu) for long exposure times. If you need to do multiple shots, it is a matter of taking those yourself and stacking them.



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#24
[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281079412' post='1539']

Just to add a comment:



Most dslrs, if not all, use black frame subtraction, or can use black frame subtraction (it generally is an option in the menu) for long exposure times. If you need to do multiple shots, it is a matter of taking those yourself and stacking them.



Kind regards, Wim

[/quote]



If you have a tripod or similar, yes, but for those cases where you can't use that, this system was a great help. I wouldn't trust stacking of handheld sequences very far.



-Lars
#25
[quote name='larsrc' timestamp='1281098603' post='1546']

If you have a tripod or similar, yes, but for those cases where you can't use that, this system was a great help. I wouldn't trust stacking of handheld sequences very far.



-Lars

[/quote]

But that goes too for the "feature" of the "slr/c", hatever that is. So Wim's comment is correct.
#26
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281102696' post='1547']

But that goes too for the "feature" of the "slr/c", hatever that is. So Wim's comment is correct.

[/quote]



Uhm...no? I'm talking about comparing this with stacking, not black frame subtraction. BFS will work in any case, but stacking is harder to do on hand-held pictures.



-Lars
#27
[quote name='larsrc' timestamp='1281103608' post='1548']

Uhm...no? I'm talking about comparing this with stacking, not black frame subtraction. BFS will work in any case, but stacking is harder to do on hand-held pictures.



-Lars

[/quote]

Stacking is hard to do hand-held, but that is true with any camera.



BTW, since one can do a set of differently exposed shots, which actually can be done handheld (and which I did quite successfully, actually, with over a set of three only 10 pixels horizontal shift, with a 5D Classic), I wonder if with a steady hand it would be possible to do the same to some degree with a series of photographs. Something worthwhile investigating I guess <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />.



Regarding a BSS: that is something we could do with a series of shots as well I imagine (continuous shot sequence), and just select the best one of a series ourselves I guess. Do we really need the camera to do that, I wonder?



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#28
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281102696' post='1547']

the "slr/c", hatever that is.

[/quote]



Kodak DCS Pro SLR/c, a full frame camera with (at that time) whopping resolution (14 MP). Camera was available with EF mount (SLR/c) as well as Nikon mount (slr/n). However, despite the name similarity, both cameras were based on very different bodies (Nikon and Sigma (!) IIRC) and consequently looked different, too.



The camera had no anti alias filter, so delivered tremendous sharpness (as well as some moire) and offered something I wish would see some sort of revival today: low sensivity down to ISO 6.



Was serious competition to the Canon 1Ds and of course a blessing for Nikon shooters, who were otherwise stuck to DX sensors. Unfortunately, Kodak was unable to make money from their professional premium models and decided to discontinue both cameras and leave that market to the competition completely.



-- Markus
Editor
opticallimits.com

#29
[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281079412' post='1539']

Just to add a comment:



Most dslrs, if not all, use black frame subtraction, or can use black frame subtraction (it generally is an option in the menu) for long exposure times. If you need to do multiple shots, it is a matter of taking those yourself and stacking them.



Kind regards, Wim

[/quote]



Yes, canon's have a Long Exposure Noise Reduction mode. This is a pure single dark channel subtraction (maybe some other built in NR too?). This is is only part of what I'm referring to. Sorry for the confusion. Besides this, in the slr/c (which is the old FF kodak), there's a special mode you can go into for long exposures at low iso's. When in this mode if you take a picture of moving lights if you look close you can actually see the break in the light where the new frame is. After the shot is done, the camera grinds away for a few while processing the image and saving it.



The key difference is between this and my canons is with the slr/c (or their nikon variant slr/n) the results are actually the cleanest, highest resolution images the camera can put out. This is not true for the canons. The only problem with the slr/c is the range of use was very limited. That's why I wonder why someone hasn't copied this and brought it up to date.
#30
Hi Mike,



Thank you for the additional explanation. I am not too familiar wit the Kodak slr/c and /n models. I do know it was the thing to strive for, for as long as it lasted anyway <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />.[quote name='mike' timestamp='1281113344' post='1553']

Yes, canon's have a Long Exposure Noise Reduction mode. This is a pure single dark channel subtraction (maybe some other built in NR too?).[/quote]I thought it does both chroma and luminance noise, but I am not 100 % sure. I never had the need to use it yet.
Quote: This is is only part of what I'm referring to. Sorry for the confusion. Besides this, in the slr/c (which is the old FF kodak), there's a special mode you can go into for long exposures at low iso's. When in this mode if you take a picture of moving lights if you look close you can actually see the break in the light where the new frame is. After the shot is done, the camera grinds away for a few while processing the image and saving it.



The key difference is between this and my canons is with the slr/c (or their nikon variant slr/n) the results are actually the cleanest, highest resolution images the camera can put out. This is not true for the canons. The only problem with the slr/c is the range of use was very limited. That's why I wonder why someone hasn't copied this and brought it up to date.

I find noise on the 5D II only starts getting in the way around 3200 to 6400 iso and funnily enough especially when overexposign slightly at 3200 iso - at 6400 iso you lose details. With the 1D Mk III and some dedicated noise reduction software and profiles, even the images at 6400 iso become squeaky clean, but even there I never needed it so far.



I guess it depends on the application this is used for or required for. Certainly very interesting to know.



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
  


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