Opticallimits

<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



This I found quite silly:

http://press.nokia.com/2012/02/27/nokia-...e-imaging/



A smartphone with.... 41mp sensor, giving a maximum of 38mp photos. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' /> <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

If only it was 42MP it might have been usable...



I've long wondered if a super-sampling technique might give better results than the low sample rates typically used. Will be interesting to see how this compares with a native low-MP sensor of comparable size.

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1330345333' post='16225']

If only it was 42MP it might have been usable...



I've long wondered if a super-sampling technique might give better results than the low sample rates typically used. Will be interesting to see how this compares with a native low-MP sensor of comparable size.

[/quote]

There I agree with you, the supersampling is interesting from a noise perspective.

You can read the white paper about the camera technology in that phone here:

- http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA...epaper.pdf



I'm quite impressed with what they're doing.



On the Canon EOS 5D Mark II at least, they don't use all the pixels for video, they're spread out, so the CPU only handles the actual video resolution. In the Nokia 808 PureView, they re-sample the full 41 megapixels (not 42) down to the resolution of your video in real time. There is a dedicated CPU for this purpose which after re-sampling down to your chosen resolution, hands the video over to the main CPU. This is quite impressive IMO.



So you won't get a 41 megapixle image, only 5 or 8 depending on your settings.



In addition, you can zoom. But it's not digital zoom, it's just less resolution to re-sample the more you zoom, which gives you 3x zoom for pictures, 4x for 1080p, 6x for 720p and 12x 640x360. So the image quality do change, but it's not up scaling a lower resolution image like normal digital zoom, it's down scaling until you have a ratio of 1:1 with the actual sensor pixels.



Also, it's a large sensor, in 16:9 mode the 8.02mm focal length give the field of view as 26mm on full frame, and 28mm in 4:3 mode.



I will have to get this phone for sure <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> It will be interesting to see how it handles it self. It's using Symbian Bell/Nokia Bell, but I don't miss anything for Symbian on my N8 (I use the N9 now), so it's not a problem for me. It's a 1.1GHz CPU, so it's a lot faster than the N8, and they have the same screen resolution (640x360).



It's certainly a new step towards greater image quality for phones (and maybe compact cameras if they start using this technology). Well, for bigger sensors as well of course, I'm sure this is where we are heading.

[quote name='Alexander ' timestamp='1330353526' post='16230']

You can read the white paper about the camera technology in that phone here:

- http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_METADATA...epaper.pdf



I'm quite impressed with what they're doing.



On the Canon EOS 5D Mark II at least, they don't use all the pixels for video, they're spread out, so the CPU only handles the actual video resolution. In the Nokia 808 PureView, they re-sample the full 41 megapixels (not 42) down to the resolution of your video in real time. There is a dedicated CPU for this purpose which after re-sampling down to your chosen resolution, hands the video over to the main CPU. This is quite impressive IMO.



So you won't get a 41 megapixle image, only 5 or 8 depending on your settings.



In addition, you can zoom. But it's not digital zoom, it's just less resolution to re-sample the more you zoom, which gives you 3x zoom for pictures, 4x for 1080p, 6x for 720p and 12x 640x360. So the image quality do change, but it's not up scaling a lower resolution image like normal digital zoom, it's down scaling until you have a ratio of 1:1 with the actual sensor pixels.



Also, it's a large sensor, in 16:9 mode the 8.02mm focal length give the field of view as 26mm on full frame, and 28mm in 4:3 mode.



I will have to get this phone for sure <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> It will be interesting to see how it handles it self. It's using Symbian Bell/Nokia Bell, but I don't miss anything for Symbian on my N8 (I use the N9 now), so it's not a problem for me. It's a 1.1GHz CPU, so it's a lot faster than the N8, and they have the same screen resolution (640x360).



It's certainly a new step towards greater image quality for phones (and maybe compact cameras if they start using this technology). Well, for bigger sensors as well of course, I'm sure this is where we are heading.

[/quote]



Nice article Alexander,

Definitly this phone is big step futher. But I should manetion that some parts ot this document are more marketing Bla Bla....



I'll copy paste just a smallpart of this document, for example "But because only the centre of the optics are

used where there is less diffraction, you get better optical performance "



With all respect of Nokia authors of this article

Miro

Yes, that part is kinda.. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> But the technology is interesting I think, as it will be to see how the results turn out, both photo and video.

Here is a zip-file with three images form the phone at full resolution, 39 megapixels: http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s3.am...chive2.zip



I'm impressed. It's a phone.. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[quote name='Alexander ' timestamp='1330358962' post='16233']

Here is a zip-file with three images form the phone at full resolution, 39 megapixels: http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s3.am...chive2.zip



I'm impressed. It's a phone.. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]

Ironic... a cell phone camera which does not suck, on a smartphone which does suck (windows phone).

It's actually Symbian Bell (Nokia Bell), not Windows Phone. I like Symbian <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Well, the full-res samples look quite soft, the sensor clearly outresolves the lens, however downsampled to 5 mpix pictures do look bitingly sharp and colourful - massive oversampling clearly pays off <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Funny enough, if we my maths are correct, having an ideal diffraction-limited lens at f/2.4 with 1/1.2" sensor and calculating the resolution using Rayleigh criterion (as opposed to MTF-50), maximum resolution actually would be around ~38 megapixels <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />