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Full Version: Nikon Z7 II and Z6 II annouced
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Indeed, and I wonder why they dropped the "s" moniker Nikon uses to use for such updates. Perhaps they wanted to avoid the mind boggling numbers juggling of the past and just go with what works for Canon and Sony.

Anyway, they gain dual card slots, dual processors (for a comparatively small gain in performance, I guess a new generation of processor was not ready yet), a number of AF feature improvements (face and eye detect in "wide area AF mode", AF possible in one stop lower light than before in normal AF speed mode (-4.5 EV for Z6 II, -3EV for Z7 II , 14 FPS (up from 12) for the Z6 II (but only with single AF point and 12 bit RAW), 10 fps (up from 9) for the Z7 II (albeit only single AF point and 12 bit RAW) and a bigger buffer, 4K60 for both, and a port for a new grip with vertical controls.
Nothing ground breaking in terms of specs there ........ but it's eye AF/ tracking etc which will decide how worthwhile this upgrade will be ....... if the D850/D5/D500's additional processor is any sort of indicator of what improvements can be done with additional power ..... spec sheets don't indicate anything about AF.

No front facing screen and .......

EVF ...... Sony S III 9.5 MD ........ Canon R5/ Panasonic ........ 5+ MD ...... Nikon 3.6 MD .......

........ Nikon ..... not even on the podium!!
Let's face it - also Nikon is in financial troubles and putting some lipstick on a pig is cheap.
Vis à vis Z9!!


I think we are going to see that the electronic shutter is a compromise that is not going to be the be all and end all of high speed shooting (easy though it maybe at this juncture) ...... with the exception of noise sensitive situations .......

While we are seeing frame rates of 20 Fps silently ...... it comes at a price ......... rolling shutter (image distortions .... curvatures) and banding under artificial lighting scenarios ...... up until now we have seen very few results from any sports events due to corivid 19 ........ but it is clear that it has it's technical image shortcomings in terms of extreme sport situations are already apparent.
All this infers that the traditional mechanical shutter for all it's negatives, is still a faithful image creating form ...... which apart from it's inevitable audible noise output has little other against it.
I would like to see Nikon adopt a high speed mechanical shutter that can equal ES Fps and eliminate or or at least reduce the shortcomings of the ES ......
If 20Fps could be achieved with a mechanical shutter in conjunction with an AF- C reactivity incorporating a sufficiently deep buffer and an extremely fast EVF processor to reduce or nearly eliminate EVF lag we could forget worries of distortions/tracking in extreme ES sports images .......

..... but more than anything else we could forget about nipping out and suffering the embarrassment of walking into a "girly boutique'" and asking for your favourite brand of lipstick!!
Keep electronic shutter and add a super-fast mechanical shutter ...... Canon already has 16 Fps in their sports DSLR ...... so 20 Fps is doable!!
(10-15-2020, 09:03 PM)davidmanze Wrote: [ -> ]Vis à vis Z9!!


I think we are going to see that the electronic shutter is a compromise that is not going to be the be all and end all of high speed shooting (easy though it maybe at this juncture) ...... with the exception of noise sensitive situations .......

While we are seeing frame rates of 20 Fps silently ...... it comes at a price ......... rolling shutter (image distortions .... curvatures) and banding under artificial lighting scenarios ...... up until now we have seen very few results from any sports events due to corivid 19 ........ but it is clear that it has it's technical image shortcomings in terms of extreme sport situations are already apparent.
All this infers that the traditional mechanical shutter for all it's negatives, is still a faithful image creating form ...... which apart from it's inevitable audible noise output has little other against it.
I would like to see Nikon adopt a high speed mechanical shutter that can equal ES Fps and eliminate or or at least reduce the shortcomings of the ES ......
If 20Fps could be achieved with a mechanical shutter in conjunction with an AF- C reactivity incorporating a sufficiently deep buffer and an extremely fast EVF processor to reduce or nearly eliminate EVF lag we could forget worries of distortions/tracking in extreme ES sports images .......

..... but more than anything else we could forget about nipping out and suffering the embarrassment of walking into a "girly boutique'" and asking for your favourite brand of lipstick!!
Keep electronic shutter and add a super-fast mechanical shutter ...... Canon already has 16 Fps in their sports DSLR ...... so 20 Fps is doable!!

Dave I think you attributing some mirror related shortcomings to the shutter:
1) shutter sound although audible is minimal, the sound you hear from DSLRs is the mirror flap, my EOSRP uses a mechanical shutter, it is barely audible.
2) shutter mechanism is rather fast, it is the mirror flap limiting the frame rate on current SLRs, of course electronic shutter is faster than a mechanical shutter, but it isn't the one limiting high FPS for the time being.
(10-17-2020, 02:41 AM)tonia Wrote: [ -> ]Dave I think you attributing some mirror related shortcomings to the shutter:
1) shutter sound although audible is minimal, the sound you hear from DSLRs is the mirror flap, my EOSRP uses a mechanical shutter, it is barely audible.
2) shutter mechanism is rather fast, it is the mirror flap limiting the frame rate on current SLRs, of course electronic shutter is faster than a mechanical shutter, but it isn't the one limiting high FPS for the time being.


  Actually, I wasn't attributing shortcomings to the mechanical  shutter ..... the contrary, I was attributing shortcomings about the electronic shutter .......... (rolling shutter/banding) .... most field sports situations aren't that noise sensitive and as you say without a mirror the noise produced is relatively insignificant ....
........ with the announcements of Nikon, Sony and Canon's intentions to produce a truly professional sports mirror-less camera ....  I see them looking to have equal frame-rates mechanically and electronically .......... 
........ then you have the best of both worlds!

................................................................................................................................................................................

OT  ...... Eddie Van Halen ...

   I'm not a heavy metal dude and know little of their music ...... but with all the utubes coming out of the woodwork .....

What a great guy with such a precocious talent  ....... RIP 
He was Dutch :O

Anyhow, the solution is not an even faster mechanical shutter. The solution is something that already exists in other types of cameras: a global shutter on the sensor. The reason why no one yet offers a global shutter on sensors of big sensor "consumer" cameras is, as far as I know, that the extra stuff needed on the sensor impacts the light sensitivity (space the sensels can occupy), so a lower DR/worse high ISO performance.
(10-17-2020, 08:22 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: [ -> ]He was Dutch :O

Anyhow, the solution is not an even faster mechanical shutter. The solution is something that already exists in other types of cameras: a global shutter on the sensor. The reason why no one yet offers a global shutter on sensors of big sensor "consumer" cameras is, as far as I know, that the extra stuff needed on the sensor impacts the light sensitivity (space the sensels can occupy), so a lower DR/worse high ISO performance.

Yes Dutch with a name like that !!

 I have heard that Canon is looking at global shutter technology ..... question is the time factor to bring it to production ........ could it be ready for next year ....... will it require a lower Mps sensor to fit all that technology on the same sized sensor? 

   The Sony is said to be for next spring  ........ Canon around a similar time ...... Nikon not till "an" autumn (no year mentioned  Smile )
Well it looks like global shutter it is for the R1 .......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRdMo2ofGkI

  Also looks like a 20 Mps sensor plus stacking mode for a DR of 20 EV.

 One thing that puzzled me the guy says: 

 "Imagine you're shooting a F1 car coming round a bend .... the camera takes ten images and stacks them for a perfectly sharp F1 car and a perfectly blurred background"

How does that happen?
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