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Full Version: The Pentax FF K1 DSLR is out: Ephotozine Review!
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Quote:An interesting but ultimately flawed point of view.

 

Pentax come up with the Q, and the K-01... when the choice of making a proper mirrorless camera system wasn't an option. Both were developed while Hoya was preparing to sell them to Ricoh.

 

The old full frame project was canceled because of the sensor, and the other camera using the same sensor (Contax) failed miserably.

 

Pentax has more FF K-mount lenses than the Sony FE.

 

Last but not least, going mirrorless - what you seems to think it's the "right" kind of camera - wouldn't solve any one of those points. On the contrary, on the lens side things would've been much more dire.
The old FF "project" was not canceled due to the sensor. Contax was the 1st one to come with a FF sensor DSLR, actually, announced in 2000 and came to market in 2002 using a Philips 6mp sensor. The really old Pentax FF project which was based on the same sensor was canceled on 2001. That was even before Canon came with its 1st FF sensor DSLR.

 

But Pentax has been showing FF mock up "prototypes" all through the FF DSLR height (or hype?) last 1.5 decade. So, a bit odd to only mention their very first flirtations with FF.

 

Sony now has some very impressive lenses (counting Zeiss, and other 3rd party offerings), just no good body. All hampered with bad ergonomics, tiny badly layed out controls, poor battery life and bad RAW format.

 

So, now you have the choice of a impressively specced Pentax K1 for everything except fast tracking photography, with a lens line up which leaves some to be desired, and on the Sony side a plethora of small and not too attractive to use FF bodies with some very impressive lenses. 

And then you have Nikon and Canon with their much bigger following, with mostly well thought out DSLR bodies and pretty full range of lenses.

 

Indeed, going mirrorless will not solve anything. You probably will end up with yet another small, not so ergonomic camera, with bad battery life, all the downsides that come with EVF, and no lens line up.

 

I do hope that the K1 will find buyers in big enough numbers.

Guest

Quote:Yes, maybe, but what does Ricoh/Pentax gain now? After the FF hype is slowly fading out and the mirrorless hype about to start? Coming up with a project which will rest like lead in the shelves? Which dealer will dare to present Pentax while there are so many equally good Canon/Nikon/Sony bodies out or expected? Having more lenses than Sony in the portfolio - what kind of surprise ist that meant to be?
 

Interesting point of view, though perhaps a bit out of touch with reality. As things stands, I still can't get my K-1 because the demand outstrips the supply.

The surprise was if Pentax made a FF MILC and it would be 1/10th as successful as the K-1.

Guest

Quote:The old FF "project" was not canceled due to the sensor. Contax was the 1st one to come with a FF sensor DSLR, actually, announced in 2000 and came to market in 2002 using a Philips 6mp sensor. The really old Pentax FF project which was based on the same sensor was canceled on 2001. That was even before Canon came with its 1st FF sensor DSLR.

 

But Pentax has been showing FF mock up "prototypes" all through the FF DSLR height (or hype?) last 1.5 decade. So, a bit odd to only mention their very first flirtations with FF.

 

Sony now has some very impressive lenses (counting Zeiss, and other 3rd party offerings), just no good body. All hampered with bad ergonomics, tiny badly layed out controls, poor battery life and bad RAW format.

 

So, now you have the choice of a impressively specced Pentax K1 for everything except fast tracking photography, with a lens line up which leaves some to be desired, and on the Sony side a plethora of small and not too attractive to use FF bodies with some very impressive lenses. 

And then you have Nikon and Canon with their much bigger following, with mostly well thought out DSLR bodies and pretty full range of lenses.

 

Indeed, going mirrorless will not solve anything. You probably will end up with yet another small, not so ergonomic camera, with bad battery life, all the downsides that come with EVF, and no lens line up.

 

I do hope that the K1 will find buyers in big enough numbers.
 

AFAIK the old FF project was indeed canceled due to the sensor (though I'm not 100% sure if it was because of subpar image quality, outrageous price or both). The Contax did it, and died; it was such a glorious suicide! Wink

 

No, Pentax has not been showing FF mock up "prototypes" last 1.5 decade; what on Earth are you talking about?

And they never promised to make a FF DSLR (after the 2001 project), right until the end of 2012.

 

Sony has 16 FE lenses, 3 years after the first A7-series camera - an impressive effort; but they started with 5 in 2013. Pentax is starting with 15 official FF-compatible lenses (though those are including 2 old "regular" FA lenses, and the 3 FA Limiteds), and there are many others which are not on the official list.

While the primes scheduled for 2017 or later are badly needed, one can't say that Pentax has few lenses without admitting Sony FEs are fewer. And especially without admitting that making a new, mirrorless system means that you'd count the lenses on the fingers of one hand.

 

As for sales, the K-1 was never meant to sell in huge numbers - the initial production volume being a mere 7000 units per month (or about 1% of the total DSLRs produced). Sure, the initial production volume is absolutely insufficient to cope with the demand, so one could conclude that it indeed found buyers "in big enough numbers".
Quote:Interesting point of view, though perhaps a bit out of touch with reality. As things stands, I still can't get my K-1 because the demand outstrips the supply.

The surprise was if Pentax made a FF MILC and it would be 1/10th as successful as the K-1.
So, I was more than right - if there's a shortage in supply, even worse. Because after all remaining Pentaxians went for their K1, you will still see no K1 body in the shops.  ^_^

 

The longest lens is a DA 560mm - for APS-C (if I'm not mistaken by the DA explanation). Okay, they say it covers the 35 mm circle, why not. Besides of those 3 lenses "which cover the 35 mm circle", I see 12 lenses, no portrait tele (77 mm is a bit short), no shift lenses, one f/1.4 lens - come on, this "portfolio" has more gaps than choice. Using old manual glass? Why not, enjoy the focusing. Big Grin  

 

The shortest is the Tamron 15-30 labelled with Pentax and costing quite a bit more than the genuine Tamron for CaNikon. 
You can't seriously take the Sony DSLR system as a reference - this system is essentially dead.

Pentax competes with Canon EOS and Nikon F so 16 lenses is a bit on the slim side here really.

 

FWIW, Sony FE has 15 +3 +3 native lenses now.

 

And, of course, Pentax had a window of opportunity in the mirrorless sector.

Pentax has always been the king of miniaturization. 

The Q was released with the tiny sensor because their marketing was terrified by the idea that mirrorless could eat their DSLR sales. The K-01 was a joke - sorry to say that. You can't just take a K-mount camera without a mirror and sell that as a competitor to native mirrorless cameras. This was clearly missing the point. 

Of course, they were not alone with their misconception of the mirrorless segment. Both Canon and Nikon were as stupid whereas Sony, Oly/Pana and Fuji - who had nothing to lose - went in full throttle leaving CaNiPe in the dust.

 

And please don't tell us that Pentax FF stopped because of the sensor. Sony offered a reliable 6mp sensor back in 2004. They merely had to incorporate it like Minolta or Nikon.

 

Again, Pentax has great engineers but a marketing beyond believe. I'm sure the K-1 is an awesome camera so if you go for it have lots of fun!

Neither Minolta nor Nikon ever  incorporated a 6mp FF sensor... Nikon's first FF sensor was at least partly their ow design and 12mp, and Minolta never had a FF sensor in a DSLR.

 

Pentax did use the same 6mp APS-C CCD as Minolta and Nikon used.

Quote:Neither Minolta nor Nikon ever  incorporated a 6mp FF sensor... Nikon's first FF sensor was at least partly their ow design and 12mp, and Minolta never had a FF sensor in a DSLR.

 

Pentax did use the same 6mp APS-C CCD as Minolta and Nikon used.
 

 

Quote:Neither Minolta nor Nikon ever  incorporated a 6mp FF sensor... Nikon's first FF sensor was at least partly their ow design and 12mp, and Minolta never had a FF sensor in a DSLR.

 

Pentax did use the same 6mp APS-C CCD as Minolta and Nikon used.
 

Ahh, sorry, this is correct - I mixed up stuff there.

Still - they had the opportunity to use Sony FF sensors for years.

Guest

JoJu, you were talking about "a project which will rest like lead in the shelves"- how is that even remotely similar to dealers not being to bring enough cameras to sell? It's the exact opposite.

 

The DA 560mm, together with the DA* 200mm and the DA* 300mm, are full frame lenses - that's official, claimed by Ricoh Imaging.

A few other DA lenses are compatible without any noticeable vignetting or loss of sharpness, but they're not recognized by Ricoh Imaging as being proper full frame.

 

Klaus, both the Q and the K-01 were made just as Hoya was preparing to sell Pentax to Ricoh. The 2011 was an awful year, with zero K-mount products.

I don't think their marketing was afraid of anything. I think Pentax simply lacked fundings to do anything relevant. So they did a compact with interchangeable lenses, and a "K-30" without a viewfinder&PDAF system.

 

The opportunity to use Sony FF sensors for years doesn't amount to much, when the owning company's strategy is cost cutting and personnel reduction. Pentax had to break free from Hoya and get into Ricoh's hands; as soon as it was done, the FF project started.

I didn't notice this thread was still sneaking along in the wings.. 

 

 The bottom line is that Pentax have done what everybody said they couldn't..

 1. Continue in business.

 2. Produce a quality FF body with an IQ that improves on Nikon D810...and that is no mean feat,   the pixel shift technology is breathtakingly excellent and makes it the best landscape FF DSLR on the market for 60% of the cost of the best competition.

 3. They have done what they did with the D645Z, produced a camera where the demand outstrips supply.

 

Like all the best tricks of course, it's all done with mirrors! ..(and prisms and other optical niceties)

 

 

 

Speaking of MLCs, a little bird told me that Sony have signed up with Tesla's Elon Musk!

 (fitting charging stations in churches to adapt the A7S for shooting weddings no doubt!)

I like to poop the party a bit: 
  • How long did they have it in development?
  • How long did it take them to make a camera which overtakes a 2 years old one which itself was an evolution from a 4 years old one?
  • How long will it take until Adobe fully supports Pentax' pixel shift? So far you need to use the crappy Silky Pix to get correct RAWs out of it. Today, "Limited" is not only the name of two or three lenses to be used with it.
  • Mirrors and prisms and other optical niceties without inbuilt AF adjustment? Yawn. And again a potential buyer will have to wait until FoCal supports this thing - if they do at all.
 

To me Pentax can make the most super camera there is: too much downsides just because they are the exotic manufacturer will make me not buy it, I learnt enough out of that mistake and I wont't pay dearly a second time.  Tongue

 

You want to use your old Pentax glas with it? Have fun focusing with the "optical niceties" (besides, after mirror and prism there is no more of them) or see how fast Pentax LiveView will drain the battery. Also, I would not want to make too much jokes out of Sony, Tesla or whatever as long as there is no DSLR focusing 100% with each lens out of the box and as long as Sony provides the Sensors - even to your darling Pentax  ^_^ we'll see how far Pentax comes without Sony sensors.

 

Yeah, Kudos to them they did it - I just use to take my pictures with camera, less with Kudos. If I want to go exotic I already have a collection.

 

Of Sigma Merrills  Big Grin

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