[Guest]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1291122935' post='4601']

There are two "definitions" that always run through eachother, and to me it seems also through genotypewriter's posts.



The more "correct" one being the pointing the camera at something and just shooting a picture (which he and I identify the most likely buyers of lenses like the 15-85 and other ultra zooms to practice), and the other one being the referral to compact cameras (or cameras with a small sensor, which then include bride cameras too).



Compact cameras often are really just point and shoot devices, but not all. That mostly depends on the possibilities for the photographer the influence the capture of an image by the camera.



In his earlier post, genotypewriter likened the possibilities of lenses like the 15-85 to be like the possibilities with cameras with small sensors (the 2nd "definition"). In his post above he expands on that by talking about how a DSLR can be used as P&S (1st definition).

[/quote]



Ah, managed to miss post #20 where genotypewriter lists all the points.

Not that I agree with them, but at least it answers my question :-)

[fad2101]

Well I have taken the plunge and bought a 2nd hand eos 1ds mk ii from ebay, for less than a new 7d body, it is in very good nick, and I can't wait to get cracking with it, my initial shots with my ageing Sigma 24mm lens are very encouraging. If folks are interested, I will post in the future about how I get on....

[genotypewriter]

[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1292370328' post='4990']

Well I have taken the plunge and bought a 2nd hand eos 1ds mk ii from ebay, for less than a new 7d body, it is in very good nick, and I can't wait to get cracking with it, my initial shots with my ageing Sigma 24mm lens are very encouraging. If folks are interested, I will post in the future about how I get on....

[/quote]

Who on earth are you? Oh wait... you started the thread! <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Congrats! People still produce great shots with the original 5D... the 1Ds2 is just better:



http://www.flickriver.com/groups/1dsmk2/pool/interesting/



Enjoy your camera and tell us how you go with it!



GTW

[bryan conner]

[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1290984991' post='4545']

I guess you didn't read what I wrote carefully because by P&S I was referring to the "kind of shots" that you can do with a 15-85+APS-C that you can't do with a prime.



If it's serious landscapes, portraits, action, etc. you can do all those with a fast prime just as good and most of the time better than with a zoom.



So the kinds of shots that you can get exclusively with a 15-85+APS-C will have:



* Overall shake (due to the reliance on IS, instead of taking a tripod and locking the mirror up)



* Little subject isolation (due to the slow aperture)



* Inaccurate focus because of less light going to the AF (so forget any real tracking but DOF is so big like on a P&S or a handycam, tracking is not even a real issue)



* Subject blur except in good light (again due to slow aperture)



* Bad bokeh (the simpler optics of primes in combination with larger apertures produce better bokeh)



* Heavy CA (due to all the extra glass etc.)



So, effectively, the shots that you can do only with a 15-85 IS that you can't do with a fast prime are P&S-like, lazy-tourist shots. So for that kind of thing I much rather carry a smaller P&S like my Nex-5.



GTW

[/quote]



So....does this mean that you use a Nex-5 because you like images that are out of focus, blurred if not taken in good light, and ridden with CA?

[genotypewriter]

[quote name='Bryan Conner' timestamp='1292395586' post='4994']

So....does this mean that you use a Nex-5 because you like images that are out of focus, blurred if not taken in good light, and ridden with CA?

[/quote]

Although it might not be obvious because of how frequently I post in these forums, I kind of have a social life (gasp!)... so the Nex-5 + 16 2.8 is perfect for taking pictures with friends and family when I'm out with them.



Like I said, this combo doesn't produce the clearest shots, the least noisy shots or the shallowest DOF shots attainable... but I have a lot more fun and take a lot more pictures (with me in them!) than I would if I was carrying my 5D2+24LII. The Nex is for my back pocket for quick snaps and the 5D2 stays in my backpack for most things photographic.



Not sure if you've used the Nex-5 + 16 2.8 combo but it's great at focusing. It's really snappy and does really well in 0-light... thanks to a very powerful AF illuminator beam the camera has. It's also perfect for self-portraits with friends (while I'm still young) because Sony's face detection algorithms are top compared to Canon's or Fuji's, for example.



GTW

[bryan conner]

I do not have the privilege of owning or even having used a Nex-5, but I fully understand. All of the searching for and arguing about the perfect lens/camera can completely ruin the main purpose of photography.....fun, enjoyment, and sharing with others. We have 2 point and shoots, a Fuji and a Nikon. I often have to force myself to put one of them in my pocket instead of a big bag on my shoulder, but everytime I do, I am happy I did. The images that either of these can produce are great for remembering the moment....and that is what it is all about. Don't get me wrong, I love comparing statistics, and features etc, but sometimes it is ok just to "take the f-ing picture!".