[thxbb12]

Let me first explain a bit about my current background, issues and motivations regarding the switch.



I've been a Pentax user for several years now. I currently own a Pentax K5 which I think is a truly great camera. The most impressive though is probably its Sony sensor.

To tell the truth, I would probably not even consider switching to another brand if Pentax AF was much more reliable. The thing is, I just bought a Pentax DA* 50-135 and it just doesn't focus consistently. In LV however, it's razor sharp at all focal lengths even wide open. I sent it back to Pentax Switzerland (which is actually a 3rd party company as Pentax is not present in Switzerland anymore) as its focus shift was too great for the in-camera micro adjustments. I also sent the body back. Now it focuses properly at 50mm, but at 135mm it's off. I can change the micro adjustment so it's fine at 135mm, but then it will be off at 50mm. This lens is supposed to be pro-grade, so to me, thinks like this should only happen to consumer lenses. Furthermore at times it just doesn't even AF in bright light (a thing that happens a lot with the Pentax DA* 16-50 as well). The lens is still under warranty and the repair place told me everything is fine with my body and lens. As it stands, this lens is unusable on my body. I have the same issue with a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 (even worse). I can't get my Pentax FA 35 f/2 to focus accurately either. It all gets worse as the focus shift changes between day light and tungsten! With my Pentax DA 55-300 I just can't get it to focus as well as LV, regardless of the micro-adjustments. The only 2 lenses I have that focus really consistently are my DFA 100 f/2.8 macro and Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 (rather surprisingly).



With all this rant, I don't know if the grass will be much greener in Nikon land, but I just can't see it being as bad as what I have to currently deal with.



At first I had obviously considered getting a D700. However, after having thought more about what FF lenses I'd get and their prices , it just seems like the offering is more interesting in DX land. Also, the D700 sensor is getting a bit outdated, especially in terms of DR compared to the K7/D7000. I think I'd miss the DR of the K5/D7000. Going FF I'd loose reach, but gain DOF (nice). The high ISO performance of my K5 is good enough for my use, so better high ISO it's not a major consideration. I value base ISO IQ much more than the possible gain I'd have at ISO > 1600. I shoot mostly landscapes, macro, wildlife and portrait (a bit of everything really).



In a nutshell, here is why I'm more keen on the D7000 vs D700:

+ 100% VF vs 95%: I don't think I can go back to < 100% after having used the K5; you get exactly what you see

+ Higher DR at lower ISO

+ Higher IQ at base ISO: I shoot at base ISO a lot

+ More reach for wildlife and sports (thanks to the 1.5x crop factor)

+ 16MP vs 12MP

+ Dual card slots: I once had a card read error while on an assignment; luckily I only lost a dozen shots

+ SD card instead of CF (I have a large collection of SD cards)

+ Silent shutter: this is something I really appreciate about the K5, especially when shooting in quiet environments

+ Size and weight

+ Obviously: price



The real advantages of the D700, in my case, are the shallower DOF and better AF system.

Of course, the best of both worlds would be to have both bodies!



Regarding which lenses to buy, I haven't fully decided what I want, but I think I'd start with the following (APS-C):

- Nikkor 12-24 f/4 or Tokina 12-24 f/4: I have the Pentax 12-24 f/4 which shares the same optical design as the Tokina: it's one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used (perhaps I have an exceptional copy); truly impressive

- Nikkor 16-85 as a (slow) walk-around lens or a Sigma 17-70 2.8-4: I have the 17-70 2.8-4.5 on my Pentax and it's sharp even wide-open at 70mm (I know I have a good sample as I tried 2 others before which were clearly not as good)

- Nikkor 70-300 or Tamron 70-300

- Nikkor 35 f/1.8G

- Nikkor 50 f/1.8G (or the 1.4G, not sure yet)

- Tamron 90 macro or Tokina 100 macro



In the future, I'll probably also get a fast standard zoom (one of the 17-50 f/2.8 incarnations) and a medium portrait zoom (Tokina 50-135, Sigma 50-150 or Nikkor 70-200 although the latter is qite a bit more expensive).



If you look at the list of lenses above and you want to get fullframe equivalents, the task is not that easy. In the UWA department, I think the DX selection is definitely better optically overall and also cheaper, smaller and lighter. When you consider long lenses, the story is the same. To me, FF makes a lot of sense for portraiture (DOF control) and high ISO such as concerts, but for the rest... I think DX is just better overall for me.



Right now I still have my K5 and quite a few lenses (Sigma 17-70, Pentax DA 12-24, DA 15 limited, DA 55-300, FA 50 f/1.4, DFA 100 macro). I don't think the D7000 is as nicely built and as feature-complete as the K5 (especially in terms of ergonomics). I'm waiting for Nikon to release a high-end APS-C camera to replace the D300S, but it seems it won't happen any time soon. The same is true regarding the D800. If the D800 doesn't feature too many pixels, a DR at least equal to the K5's, a 100% VF, dual card slot, and is not too big, then I may be tempted by going FF...



However, the one thing I'm still not sure about is AF reliability. It's the major point that makes me want to switch to Nikon. From what I've read in the Nikon forums, it seems like the D7000 AF is not as reliable as the one in the D300 and D700. Is it true? I'm planning on buying a 35 f/1.8G and a 50mm f/1.4G which I'll use wide-open quite often. Am I more likely to have focus issues with the D7000 than the D700? I've read the D7000 can be unreliable when the light frequency changes (daylight versus tungsten), is it true?

I just don't want to experience the same problems I already have with my K5...

Also, if I'm missing something in my comparison between the D7000 vs D700 please let know!



Finally, do you guys have an idea when the hypothetical D400 will be released?



I'd really appreciate the feedback from some advanced photographers having hand on experience with both cameras, especially regarding AF reliability and accuracy.

[Steinar1]

I have a D700 and have had a D300s and frankly will be buying another D300s if Nikon does not soon produce a successor. I have never had an AF problem with either and frankly would consider having both bodies if i were doing the kind of work you do. They use the same battery grip and it is easy to interchange the lenses. In terms of IQ, they are very similar, but the FF gives a better colour rendering IMO. The menu systems are identical and the ergonomics as well. I would use the D300s for animal pictures and sports, if you do that and the D700 for portraits and low ISO shooting. I probably don't help you much, but having both bodies is cheap life insurance and the D300s use 2 cards, one CF and one SD and it works superbly.

[netrex]

Have you considered that the camera might be at fault for some of your focus problems? I mean since it happens to so many of your lenses. I have the K-5 with a 50-135mm (which I owned before, sold, traded back later against the 60-250mm+money to get f/2.8 again), 16-50mm and had the 60-250mm before, and I don't have any problems like this. I had a problem with the 16-50mm (which is the second one of these lenses I've owned, sold the first due to finances, it did not have these problems), but I sent it in for a fix, and now it's good. They also worked as they should on my K-x and K10D.



I say this cause it seems odd that you have problem with so many lenses, that it might be the camera that is at fault, or maybe somewhat at fault.

[Guest]

AF adjustment on zoom lenses needs to be available for both zoom ends, otherwise it's useless. Few cameras offer this feature. I know the Olympus E-5 and upcoming Canon 1DX have it. Service centre folks must also learn how to calibrate a zoom lens.



Indeed, I have heard of more AF issues with the D7000 than the D300s/D700. Strangely, the AF problems reported on the D7000 sound eerily like what I faced on the Canon 7D. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Can you rent cameras and lenses? If so, you may test out some cameras and lenses.

[boren]

[quote name='thw' timestamp='1319871754' post='12558']

AF adjustment on zoom lenses needs to be available for both zoom ends, otherwise it's useless. Few cameras offer this feature. I know the Olympus E-5 and upcoming Canon 1DX have it. [/quote]



The Olympus E-30 and E-620 has it too, but the output of their sensors is not even remotely close to that of the K-5. Other than per-pixel sharpness, the E-5 sensor is not much better either.

[thxbb12]

[quote name='Vieux loup' timestamp='1319835513' post='12555']

I have a D700 and have had a D300s and frankly will be buying another D300s if Nikon does not soon produce a successor. I have never had an AF problem with either and frankly would consider having both bodies if i were doing the kind of work you do. They use the same battery grip and it is easy to interchange the lenses. In terms of IQ, they are very similar, but the FF gives a better colour rendering IMO. The menu systems are identical and the ergonomics as well. I would use the D300s for animal pictures and sports, if you do that and the D700 for portraits and low ISO shooting. I probably don't help you much, but having both bodies is cheap life insurance and the D300s use 2 cards, one CF and one SD and it works superbly.

[/quote]



I agree, the FX + DX combo is the best of both worlds. However, it's too costly for me as I'm not a pro photographer. I make a little bit of money on the side with it, but it's essentially a hobby for me.



I'll wait what Nikon comes up with. It shouldn't take too long: the D300 and D700 are long-overdue for a new model. Until then, I'll sell most of my lenses and keep my K5 and the few lenses that work well with it.



Thanks!

[thxbb12]

[quote name='Alexander ' timestamp='1319851523' post='12557']

Have you considered that the camera might be at fault for some of your focus problems? I mean since it happens to so many of your lenses. I have the K-5 with a 50-135mm (which I owned before, sold, traded back later against the 60-250mm+money to get f/2.8 again), 16-50mm and had the 60-250mm before, and I don't have any problems like this. I had a problem with the 16-50mm (which is the second one of these lenses I've owned, sold the first due to finances, it did not have these problems), but I sent it in for a fix, and now it's good. They also worked as they should on my K-x and K10D.



I say this cause it seems odd that you have problem with so many lenses, that it might be the camera that is at fault, or maybe somewhat at fault.

[/quote]



Yes, it has occured to me and that's why I sent it back for an AF check-up. Pentax is not present in Switzerland, but they use a 3rd party company (it's only a single guy!), to deal with repairs and revisions. Originally my DA* 50-135 would never be sharp wide-open even with micro adjustments. So I contacted the guy describing exactly my issues. He asked me to send the DA* 50-135. I did. He said he fixed it. When I got it back, it was better: but now it's either sharp at 50 or 135, but not both. I told him and he asked me to send the body, which is what I did. Now that it's back, I encounter exactly the same issue. No change whatsoever. See, this guy is the only guy dealing with Pentax repairs, in the whole country! What am I supposed to do from here?

What should really be done would be to send him all of my glass + the body. Then he'd have to calibrate everything. Now, I know it will never happen, at least not in Switzerland.

That's why I'm tired of all these AF issues. Btw, I also tried some of my lenses on my dad's K10D. I don't see any AF improvement over my K5 (seems even worse).



Right now, I'm selling all of my lenses and keeping the ones that works well with my body (DA 12-24, DA 15, Sigma 17-70 and DA 100 macro).

I'll wait to see what Nikon comes up with regarding the D400 and D800 and take it from there. However, I don't think I'll buy any new Pentax glass. I really get the impression their QC has gotten down big time in the last 4 years (maybe it's just me or an impression though).

[thxbb12]

[quote name='thw' timestamp='1319871754' post='12558']

AF adjustment on zoom lenses needs to be available for both zoom ends, otherwise it's useless. Few cameras offer this feature. I know the Olympus E-5 and upcoming Canon 1DX have it. Service centre folks must also learn how to calibrate a zoom lens.



Indeed, I have heard of more AF issues with the D7000 than the D300s/D700. Strangely, the AF problems reported on the D7000 sound eerily like what I faced on the Canon 7D. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Can you rent cameras and lenses? If so, you may test out some cameras and lenses.

[/quote]



Agreed: micro adjustment for both ends would make much more sense. I still don't understand why only Oly features this!!??

[jamesm007]

[quote name='thxbb12' timestamp='1319982096' post='12573']

Yes, it has occured to me and that's why I sent it back for an AF check-up. Pentax is not present in Switzerland, but they use a 3rd party company (it's only a single guy!), to deal with repairs and revisions. Originally my DA* 50-135 would never be sharp wide-open even with micro adjustments. So I contacted the guy describing exactly my issues. He asked me to send the DA* 50-135. I did. He said he fixed it. When I got it back, it was better: but now it's either sharp at 50 or 135, but not both. I told him and he asked me to send the body, which is what I did. Now that it's back, I encounter exactly the same issue. No change whatsoever. See, this guy is the only guy dealing with Pentax repairs, in the whole country! What am I supposed to do from here?

What should really be done would be to send him all of my glass + the body. Then he'd have to calibrate everything. Now, I know it will never happen, at least not in Switzerland.

That's why I'm tired of all these AF issues. Btw, I also tried some of my lenses on my dad's K10D. I don't see any AF improvement over my K5 (seems even worse).



Right now, I'm selling all of my lenses and keeping the ones that works well with my body (DA 12-24, DA 15, Sigma 17-70 and DA 100 macro).

I'll wait to see what Nikon comes up with regarding the D400 and D800 and take it from there. However, I don't think I'll buy any new Pentax glass. I really get the impression their QC has gotten down big time in the last 4 years (maybe it's just me or an impression though).

[/quote]



"Yes, it has occured to me and that's why I sent it back for an AF check-up. Pentax is not present in Switzerland, but they use a 3rd party company (it's only a single guy!), to deal with repairs and revisions."



IMO of course -



This is your problem! dSLRs have demanding specs/adjustments. I auto focused fine tuned my lens all the time. My K20D had no problems with focus. I could even nail many BIF with ease and that with a DA55-300mm! One day a few months ago my rear edial started to skip now and then (over 50,000 clicks!) and I sent it to a very large service center in the USA that has high standards. My camera came back all was good but the tech did say AF was off and he adjusted it. I thought wow I did not have problems. Sure enough my kit DA18-55mm WR that needed +8 AF fine tuning now needed 0. My Sigma 17-70mm, 10-20mm stayed the same. My DA55-300mm that needed 0 now needed +5 (go figure!)... and so on.



No lens had its AF improved but the DA18-55mm WR that had poorish boarders at 18mm f/3.5 became a whole lot better. None of it makes sence!



But you have to understand a Pentax service center uses special equipment to calibrate auto-focus. There are many adjustments for AF. AF fine tuning is a band-aid and does not come close to what can really be done with focus at the factory or proper service center.



Speaking of learning how to properly AF fine tune zoom lens. This was not the issue. But in any case. Did you know that the cross AF points are two AF sensors one vertical and one horizontal. Did you know the service manual tells the tech to do AF fine tuning with the camera both ways landscape and portrait! Makes sense and is something one would never think of. But doing only landscape is OK because its an average of both sensors. At the factory if they do both and the vertical reading is off they can adjust the AF module with 3 screws in the camera that can set the plane of focus square with the sensor. However if that does not do it. The sensor and platters can be adjusted as well!



Because of the amount of focus adjustments to your K5 and lens and how little AF fine tuning can do if things are really off makes me believe you have a bad K-5. The fact the a couple lens work fine does not surprise me as I still can't understand how my DA55-300mm which was perfect at 0 now needs +5, and my DA18-55mm WR now needs 0 instead of +8 and its IQ is much better. My other lens are the same! If they adjusted focus all my lens should change, no? But only two did.



Now trust me my lens are dialed in like a snipers scope. I have a board I made about 51cm wide and 90cm long. It is covered with paper and has a scale on both sides. It has an adjustable center target and I just use my tripod to set the camera to a 45 degree angle to it; and close enough so it fill the frame. This I hope shows how much a fine tuning freak I am.



You should have no major problems IMO your tech is making a mess of things, camera and lens. But what can you do?



If Nikon and or Canon have better service centers there (I am sure they do) I would make the switch. Sorry to see a fellow Pentaxian go but what else can you do?

[thxbb12]

[quote name='jamesm007' timestamp='1319993943' post='12576']

"Yes, it has occured to me and that's why I sent it back for an AF check-up. Pentax is not present in Switzerland, but they use a 3rd party company (it's only a single guy!), to deal with repairs and revisions."



IMO of course -



This is your problem! dSLRs have demanding specs/adjustments. I auto focused fine tuned my lens all the time. My K20D had no problems with focus. I could even nail many BIF with ease and that with a DA55-300mm! One day a few months ago my rear edial started to skip now and then (over 50,000 clicks!) and I sent it to a very large service center in the USA that has high standards. My camera came back all was good but the tech did say AF was off and he adjusted it. I thought wow I did not have problems. Sure enough my kit DA18-55mm WR that needed +8 AF fine tuning now needed 0. My Sigma 17-70mm, 10-20mm stayed the same. My DA55-300mm that needed 0 now needed +5 (go figure!)... and so on.



No lens had its AF improved but the DA18-55mm WR that had poorish boarders at 18mm f/3.5 became a whole lot better. None of it makes sence!



But you have to understand a Pentax service center uses special equipment to calibrate auto-focus. There are many adjustments for AF. AF fine tuning is a band-aid and does not come close to what can really be done with focus at the factory or proper service center.



Speaking of learning how to properly AF fine tune zoom lens. This was not the issue. But in any case. Did you know that the cross AF points are two AF sensors one vertical and one horizontal. Did you know the service manual tells the tech to do AF fine tuning with the camera both ways landscape and portrait! Makes sense and is something one would never think of. But doing only landscape is OK because its an average of both sensors. At the factory if they do both and the vertical reading is off they can adjust the AF module with 3 screws in the camera that can set the plane of focus square with the sensor. However if that does not do it. The sensor and platters can be adjusted as well!



Because of the amount of focus adjustments to your K5 and lens and how little AF fine tuning can do if things are really off makes me believe you have a bad K-5. The fact the a couple lens work fine does not surprise me as I still can't understand how my DA55-300mm which was perfect at 0 now needs +5, and my DA18-55mm WR now needs 0 instead of +8 and its IQ is much better. My other lens are the same! If they adjusted focus all my lens should change, no? But only two did.



Now trust me my lens are dialed in like a snipers scope. I have a board I made about 51cm wide and 90cm long. It is covered with paper and has a scale on both sides. It has an adjustable center target and I just use my tripod to set the camera to a 45 degree angle to it; and close enough so it fill the frame. This I hope shows how much a fine tuning freak I am.



You should have no major problems IMO your tech is making a mess of things, camera and lens. But what can you do?



If Nikon and or Canon have better service centers there (I am sure they do) I would make the switch. Sorry to see a fellow Pentaxian go but what else can you do?

[/quote]



Hi James, good to read you here!



You've gone through quite a bit of testing regarding your lenses and bodies. In a perfect world we shouldn't have to mess with it so much; it should just work. I also do test my lenses, using a tripod, always making sure I defocus before refocusing, etc. I use different targets: close range ones as well as longer distance ones, to make sure it's consistent at short and longer distances. I tried the charts at 45 degres as well.

I'm just tired of messing around with this stuff as it gets even more frustrating to realize how bad it is. The limitations of the micro-adjustments doesn't really help either. A good start would be to implement it the way Olympus did in their DSLRs. Also, extending the range to -20 to +20 would be a good idea as I think -10 to +10 is definitely not enough. I wouldn't bet my house on it, but I'm almost sure the AF of my K5 changed since I bought 11 months ago. I'm almost certain some focus drift happened over time, because I remember my FA 35 was spot on a year ago and before I sent it for calibration, it wasn't the case anymore. I know there are tight tolerances involved, the mecanical parts loose over time and so on. Sure, but I still don't believe they can't make reliable long lasting cameras.

How was it, say 20 years ago, with regular film DSLRs? Did they suffer the same issues as we face nowadays? Or were they built to last? I get the impression in our consumer oriented world, things are just not built to last and to dramatically reduce cost makers don't implement tight quality controls anymore (except perhaps Leica). They probably save lots of money by doing so as only a small subset of users will ever notice and ask for a refund/exchange. This is just pure speculation on my part though.

Anyway, Nikon/Canon is much better implemented in Switzerland as they offer a real customer service and they are available at any store.

I'll let you know how it goes in Nikon land <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />