[Yakim]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281265416' post='1578']

The problem with the Canon TS-E 24mm f3.5 L II is that it is so much longer than the mark I.

Where the mark I has a length to about 87mm, the MK II' s length has increased to about 107mm. That increase makes it virtually impossible to use it with a 12mm extension ring. In that light, the MK I version has an advantage for close up work past 1:3...



In comparison: The EF-S Canon 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 USM has a length of about 89mm, and the Tokina 12-24mm f4 I have used about the same size.

[/quote]



Why should the physical length have anything to do with the compatibility to the 12mm extension tube? I thought only the focal length is what matters.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Yakim' timestamp='1281267939' post='1581']

Why should the physical length have anything to do with the compatibility to the 12mm extension tube? I thought only the focal length is what matters.

[/quote]

As you know (you say you have used your 10-22mm with 12mm extension tube), the focus gets shifted to close to the front element, that thesubject is from about 3 cm from the front element to touching the front element.



Now add 2 more CM to the length of the lens, and you get why it matters, the length of the lens. Where with the MK I the subject will almost touch the front element, with the MK II focus can actually shift past the front element inside the lens. Only because of the extra length of the lens.



Now if you would be able to find a 9mm extension tube which routes through the electrical contacts...

[popo]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281268694' post='1582']

Now add 2 more CM to the length of the lens, and you get why it matters, the length of the lens. Where with the MK I the subject will almost touch the front element, with the MK II focus can actually shift past the front element inside the lens. Only because of the extra length of the lens.[/quote]

Now that sounds like a way for people to take photos of the dust inside the lens <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[wim]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281268694' post='1582']

As you know (you say you have used your 10-22mm with 12mm extension tube), the focus gets shifted to close to the front element, that thesubject is from about 3 cm from the front element to touching the front element.



Now add 2 more CM to the length of the lens, and you get why it matters, the length of the lens. Where with the MK I the subject will almost touch the front element, with the MK II focus can actually shift past the front element inside the lens. Only because of the extra length of the lens.



Now if you would be able to find a 9mm extension tube which routes through the electrical contacts...

[/quote]

It doesn't necessarily have to be like that, as it also deponds on the position of the front nodal point of the lens. With a short lens it always is going to be more cumbersome than with a longer lens, because twice the focal length is always going to be very little compared to a longer lens. However, if you take the EF-S 60 macro, f.e., I've calculated th efront nodal point to eb soemthign in th eorder of 3 mm into th elens, from the glass surface at the front that is.



Often it is a matter of trial and error, although with retrofocus lenses the front nodal point often doesn't lie as close to the front of the lens as with non-retrofocus lenses, as necessitated by the wide angle a WA or UWA needs to cover and the amount of glass elements having to fit in the path as well.



Kind regards, Wim

[wim]

[quote name='Yakim' timestamp='1281267798' post='1580']

My regular e-mail is my work's e-mail and I'm currently on vacation so please send them to [email protected]. TIA.

[/quote]

Ok, will try again <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />. I did get an on vacation reply <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim

[Yakim]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281268694' post='1582']

As you know (you say you have used your 10-22mm with 12mm extension tube), the focus gets shifted to close to the front element, that thesubject is from about 3 cm from the front element to touching the front element.



Now add 2 more CM to the length of the lens, and you get why it matters, the length of the lens. Where with the MK I the subject will almost touch the front element, with the MK II focus can actually shift past the front element inside the lens. Only because of the extra length of the lens.[/quote]



That indeed sounds logical but I wonder if anyone has actually tried it.



[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281268694' post='1582']

Now if you would be able to find a 9mm extension tube which routes through the electrical contacts...[/quote]



I can do without electrical contacts. My Mirex adapter (Mamiya 645 lenses to EF) has no electrical contacts and it works fine in Av and M, which is what I use for 99.99% of my shots. The problem is to actually find one.

[wim]

[quote name='Yakim' timestamp='1281348545' post='1595']

That indeed sounds logical but I wonder if anyone has actually tried it.

[/quote]

I have. It's useless, 12 mm is too much. You can't focus anymore with the10-22.

I can do without electrical contacts. My Mirex adapter (Mamiya 645 lenses to EF) has no electrical contacts and it works fine in Av and M, which is what I use for 99.99% of my shots. The problem is to actually find one.

That's ok for lenses with manual control of the diaphragm, for EF, or rather, electrically controlled aperture lenses it is more problematic. Closing down the aperture with the preview button trick IMO is quite usless, because focusing wide open is already tricky as it is with the little light coming through at large magnifications. Of course, LiveView may be a solution in that case, but metering may be quite off.



Kind regards, Wim

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281349699' post='1597']

I have. It's useless, 12 mm is too much. You can't focus anymore with the10-22.



That's ok for lenses with manual control of the diaphragm, for EF, or rather, electrically controlled aperture lenses it is more problematic. Closing down the aperture with the preview button trick IMO is quite usless, because focusing wide open is already tricky as it is with the little light coming through at large magnifications. Of course, LiveView may be a solution in that case, but metering may be quite off.



Kind regards, Wim

[/quote]

Liveview with a closed down lens which you have disconnected (rotated away from the contacts) is not do-able, as far as I have been able to try with my 450D. The live view exposure sim, has no idea what it is dealing with, and with a correctly exposed scene (in M) the live view display... is close to black.



Only focussing through the viewfinder is possible, which is NOT hard though, as the DOF is so shallow at these distances that even at f10 you can easily judge focus.



I would not recommend closing the aperture for such a prolonged time, as it can damage the aperture mechanism. Fine with an affordable ultra wide angle perhaps (Canon 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24mm) but a bit less wonderful with a 24mm TS-E!

[wim]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1281350216' post='1598']

Liveview with a closed down lens which you have disconnected (rotated away from the contacts) is not do-able, as far as I have been able to try with my 450D. The live view exposure sim, has no idea what it is dealing with, and with a correctly exposed scene (in M) the live view display... is close to black.[/quote]

Thansk you fo rthat information; that is soemthign I haven't tried yet, as I don't like the idea anyway.

Only focussing through the viewfinder is possible, which is NOT hard though, as the DOF is so shallow at these distances that even at f10 you can easily judge focus.

Well, I guess your eyes are better than mine in that case. I find it hard to achieve critical focus that way. Up to 1:5 or 1:7, it's ok, but not with a closed aperture, not to me anyway. It may have to do with th efact that I tend to be too much in a hurry, however.

I would not recommend closing the aperture for such a prolonged time, as it can damage the aperture mechanism. Fine with an affordable ultra wide angle perhaps (Canon 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24mm) but a bit less wonderful with a 24mm TS-E!

Well, with the TS-E 24 Mk I you can actually use a 12 mm extension tube, so the Canon one or Kenko or whatever with contacts will work too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />.



Kind regards, Wim

[Yakim]

[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281349699' post='1597']

I have. It's useless, 12 mm is too much. You can't focus anymore with the10-22. [/quote]



I was thinking about the 24/3.5 II.



[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281349699' post='1597']

That's ok for lenses with manual control of the diaphragm, for EF, or rather, electrically controlled aperture lenses it is more problematic. Closing down the aperture with the preview button trick IMO is quite usless, because focusing wide open is already tricky as it is with the little light coming through at large magnifications. Of course, LiveView may be a solution in that case, but metering may be quite off.[/quote]



Aperture: It's O.K. I could do without it and just crop later. Heaven knows I have enough MP. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> But are there shorter extension tubes at all?

Metering: LV is actually more accurate WRT to TS.