[Guest]

Hi all,



it is that time of the year again (at least on the northern hemisphere), and every year I regret not having a weatherproof camera.



I did a little research and in the m43 system that I use there seems to be only the OM-D with the 12-50 or 60 lenses that might fit. No fast prime, unfortunately.

As systems where at least a few lenses and the bodies are sealed, only bulky full-frame Nikons and Canons exist. The 43 system is there of course, but it is expensive and deprecated. Going to the bottom end, there are plenty of digicams with tiny 1/2.5" sensors. Not too exciting, either.



What do you use too shoot in rain or snow? Is there anything in between full frame and digicams? Or are there appropriate plastic-bag solutions?



Thanks for any advice or comments,

Thomas

[dave9t5]

Pentax K-30 / K-5 / K-5II / K-5IIs bodies.

Pentax DA* / WR / AW lenses, about 11 total.

[popo]

How sealed do you really need it? I currently use a 7D as my all weather camera, including in the rain. It isn't waterproof, and with sufficient exposure to rain parts of it can start playing up like the joystick on the back, but dried out it is back to normal again. I'd have to be out in rain for several hours unprotected for that to happen though. Some people I know use rain covers, which may help further.



Similarly I use the 100-400L a lot. It isn't sealed either. Water eventually gets in through the pump action and condensation inside forces me to switch to a backup 70-300L which hasn't had any issues with water yet. Again the 100-400L would have to be out for some hours before it plays up.



Snow is no problem really, since it isn't really wet. Just dust it off before it melts and it does nothing.





My old 50D in snow. I didn't realise it was that deep before I put it down...





Same 50D when I slipped in snow and I landed on top of it. Dusted it off and it was fine.





7D+70-300L after I took shelter from a heavy rain shower. The camera is more resistant than I am! Note it looks a bit mishapen as I used my compact, which doesn't appear to do distortion correction well at close range...





Condensation in the 100-400L after using it in rain for some hours. I leave it alone with the caps off, and it clears soon enough.

[Guest]

[quote name='ThomasD' timestamp='1354910633' post='21146']I did a little research and in the m43 system that I use there seems to be only the OM-D with the 12-50 or 60 lenses that might fit.[/quote]



The new Pana zooms 12-35 and 35-100 are AFAIK sealed. Stick these onto a GH3 and you are ready to go.

[H. J. Simpson]

[quote name='ThomasD' timestamp='1354910633' post='21146']

it is that time of the year again (at least on the northern hemisphere), and every year I regret not having a weatherproof camera.[/quote]

Same here, been also looking for a weather-sealed system and I also shoot with MFT. Except the top Canikon FF cameras there doesn't seem to be a good solution there, everything is a damn compromise. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



E-M5 is a decent camera with just a few shortcomings that I can probably live with (always relatively noisy images with its base ISO 200, poor ergonomics with no grip to speak of and HLD-6 is a joke since you have to disassemble the whole thing every time you change the battery, plus on top of that the camera costs more than weather-sealed DSLRs with better sensors like K-5 or D7000)... yet the lens selection is no good, native lenses are compromised by software correction, borders/corners aren't good, yet they're very expensive. What's more, Panasonic's weather sealing is questionable, I couldn't find any detailed description of it, and whether it actually works or just a marketing gimmick is to be seen.



Pentax bodies are reasonably priced, especially the original K-5, and they are supposed to be very resistant to elements, yet the lens selection is poor. Unless I'm missing something, there are only 3 decent WR lenses out there: 16-50, 50-135 and 60-250. No wide-angle WR zoom, no WR primes.. out of the 2 telephoto zooms you probably just pick one so in the end basically there are only 2 WR lenses for Pentax system. That could be fine, but the prices jump like crazy. 16-50 might cost ~$750 today, and then suddenly it's $1500, the next month it's back to $750 and all this madness has been going on for months now. Not to mention that the lens isn't anything special in terms of optical quality and is definitely not worth $1500. Saw the same swings for 50-135.



I don't look at Canikon at all cause they don't have WR APS-C zooms, except maybe the Nikon's 17-55, and FF zooms are expensive, heavy and awkward to use with their 36-38 mm equivalent fl on the wide end.



Olympus Four Thirds lenses are really good. 7-14, 14-54, 12-60, 50-200, not to mention F2 zooms. But sensors suck, E-5 is old and expensive.. and after shooting with MFT cameras/lenses it's really hard to buy into a large and heavy DSLR system with sensors that are inferior to the ones used in much smaller mirrorless bodies. Also while the Four Thirds lenses are good and all they're also very close in size/weight to APS-C and even full frame lenses! 7-14's weight and price is so close to the full-frame Nikon's 14-24, and 50-200 is pretty much the same weight/size as Pentax 60-250.



So there doesn't seem to be fully featured weather resistant system out there except FF top cameras/lenses from Canikon. If not all those stupid price swings I'd probably try K-5 with 16-50 and if it works for me then would've added 50-135 or 60-250. Yet it's gonna be a heavy combo. Another option is the E-M5 with MMF-3 + 14-54 II. It works reasonably well and is a bit smaller/lighter. But 50-200 doesn't work well on MFT bodies - AF is very slow and inconsistent. And in any case, E-M5 + MMF-3 + 14-54 is very close in weight to K-5 + 16-50. The last option is to compromise on image quality and get Panasonic 12-35/35-100. But with all the mixed reports on their weather-sealing it might be not such a good idea. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> I've also considered Sony A77 with 16-50, but again there are some bad reports on its weathersealing (like a letter from Sony to one of the customers declining the repair service and saying that the camera is not weathersealed and shouldn't be used under rain), and there aren't any WS lenses except 16-50 anyway.



What a mess! <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Would love to go shooting right now with heavy snow outside..

UP: apparently there are WR primes from Pentax, good. No fast "normal" prime yet though.

[dave9t5]

[quote name='doh' timestamp='1355056450' post='21150']

Pentax bodies are reasonably priced, especially the original K-5, and they are supposed to be very resistant to elements, yet the lens selection is poor. Unless I'm missing something, there are only 3 decent WR lenses out there: 16-50, 50-135 and 60-250. No wide-angle WR zoom, no WR primes.. out of the 2 telephoto zooms you probably just pick one so in the end basically there are only 2 WR lenses for Pentax system.

[/quote]



Yes, you are missing some things, specifically:



[indent]SMC PENTAX DA 18-55MM F3.5-5.6 AL WR

SMC PENTAX-DA 18-135MM F3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR

SMC PENTAX DA 50-200MM F4-5.6 ED WR



SMC PENTAX DA STAR 16-50MM F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 50-135MM F2.8 ED (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 60-250MM F4 ED (IF) SDM



SMC PENTAX DA STAR 55MM F1.4 SDM

SMC PENTAX D FA MACRO 100MM F2.8 WR

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 200MM F2.8 ED (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 300MM F4 ED(IF) SDM

HD PENTAX DA 560MM F5.6ED AW[/indent]



...a list which grows by one or two lenses every year.



WR primes don't make as much sense as zooms, except for macro and long lenses, because if the conditions are bad enough to warrant a WR lens then they are bad enough to warrant not changing lenses.



[quote name='doh' timestamp='1355056450' post='21150']

That could be fine, but the prices jump like crazy. 16-50 might cost ~$750 today, and then suddenly it's $1500, the next month it's back to $750 and all this madness has been going on for months now. Not to mention that the lens isn't anything special in terms of optical quality and is definitely not worth $1500. Saw the same swings for 50-135.

[/quote]



That's inaccurate as well. The prices of many Pentax lenses did indeed jump in the spring of this year as Pentax seemingly changed their strategy and brought their formerly excellently priced lenses more in line with the rest of the market. However, they have not swung between $750 and $1500, see here:







The price was around $900~$1100 before the price jump this year but now it's stabilized around $1200~$1300. (If you saw it at $750 several times over the past month and didn't grab it knowing that it's a great price, that's not really Pentax's fault.)



The flip-side of the lens price increases is that Pentax body pricing has been coming down through market forces and the introduction of the K-30.



To compare, here is the current USA body + 16-50 USD base prices, from whichever of B&H or Adorama has it cheaper:



K-30 $650 + $1100 = $1750

K-5 $750 + $1100 = $1850

K-5II $1200 + $1100 = $2300



and then compare to similar level (but unsealed) Canon/Nikon camera/lens combos:



7D + 17-55/2.8 = $1280 + $940 = $2200

D7000 + 17-55/2.8 = $900 + $1400 = $2300



If you want something lightweight and well priced, the K-30 + 18-55WR is ~800g and currently ~USD700. The slower lens is roughly comparable with μ4/3's aperture limitations.



Lots and lots of options in Pentax land, not at all like the picture you are trying to create.

[H. J. Simpson]

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1355085707' post='21152']

Yes, you are missing some things, specifically:



[indent]SMC PENTAX DA 18-55MM F3.5-5.6 AL WR

SMC PENTAX-DA 18-135MM F3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR

SMC PENTAX DA 50-200MM F4-5.6 ED WR



SMC PENTAX DA STAR 16-50MM F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 50-135MM F2.8 ED (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 60-250MM F4 ED (IF) SDM



SMC PENTAX DA STAR 55MM F1.4 SDM

SMC PENTAX D FA MACRO 100MM F2.8 WR

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 200MM F2.8 ED (IF) SDM

SMC PENTAX DA STAR 300MM F4 ED(IF) SDM

HD PENTAX DA 560MM F5.6ED AW[/indent]



...a list which grows by one or two lenses every year.[/quote]

The first 3 are crap kit zooms (18-135 is just totally useless garbage if one to believe the reviews) and all the primes are specialty telephoto lenses of very limited use, so for me there are only 3 decent weather-sealed lenses from Pentax at the moment. 55/1.4 is more or less useful, still it's a short telephoto lens that doesn't seem to perform good wide-open and considering it's price 50-135 is a more sensible option (for the kind of shooting we're talking about, that is outside in the elements).

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1355085707' post='21152']

That's inaccurate as well. The prices of many Pentax lenses did indeed jump in the spring of this year as Pentax seemingly changed their strategy and brought their formerly excellently priced lenses more in line with the rest of the market. However, they have not swung between $750 and $1500, see here:







The price was around $900~$1100 before the price jump this year but now it's stabilized around $1200~$1300.[/quote]

I don't know about Canada and was referring to B&H prices. A week or two ago Pentax 16-50 was ~$750 at B&H. Today it's $1500: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485180-USA/Pentax_21650_SMCP_DA_16_50mm_f_2_8_ED.html

Something very similar was happening with 50-135. And it's not the first time it happens, the prices were going up and down like crazy at least 2 times in the past few months.

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1355085707' post='21152']Lots and lots of options in Pentax land, not at all like the picture you are trying to create.

[/quote]

I don't see any options. There are 2 bodies (k-30 and k-5), only one standard zoom and a couple of telephoto zooms, that's basically it. You can post a long list of all those telephoto primes, but the thing is no one really buys them, they're specialty instruments for specialty shooting. For normal use the options are very limited. "Lots and lots of options" are in the Canon system... you've got a couple of APS-C weathersealed cameras (although 50D is old now and 60D isn't weather-sealed) and a couple of full-frame cameras (even 3 if 6D is weather-sealed), you've got affordable weather-sealed zooms (24-105, 70-200/f4 is), you've got expensive weather-sealed zooms (24-70, 70-200/2.8), you've got all sorts of weather-sealed high-quality primes (including superfast wide-angles like 24/1.4, 35/1.4 and specialty TS lenses), you now even have 3-rd party weather-sealed lenses from Tamron! Now that's a lot of choices, and compared to that Pentax line-up is very limited.

[arvydas]

With respect to what was said here - it is hard to beat Pentax K-30 (or older K-5) with 18-55mm WR (+DXO module <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />)for the price/performance ratio. There might be some better options but for additional price.



A.

[Guest]

Thanks to everybody for your comments.



Ideally, I don't want to enter a new system. As the Olympus is still very expensive and the GH3 even more, I think I will have to wait another year.

If I had to choose a new system now, it would be easy, but going Pentax or Canon just sounds like a waste of money.



Best,

Thomas

[miro]

Good decision Thomas,

Flushing money for new toys creates fun but bring most of the marginal advantage.

Direct to your question about waterproof camera.

According to couple of famous photographer – there are fully water proof, partly water proof and water proof but with a little care.

The last group is the most popular by outdoor photographer since its light cheap and reliable enough.

I share similar experience. E.g I have never experienced any waterproof problem with my canon 400d + tamron 17-50 non VC for about 7 years.

I have plastic roll and rubber rings in by photo bag to seal my lens camera. I bought them from some supermarket for 1-2euro and they weight 20-30gr.

In terms of water protection this solution easily outperforms any pro body with L lens. With my canon 400d/sigma 10-20 and UV/protection filter I’ve made stunning seescape series 10sm from slashing salty water. It cost me one cheap UV filter.

Weight – 20-30gr additional weight is nothing compare to FF pro body + L lens

Price – 2-3 euro against xxxx – I don’t know. I don’t have L lenses nor pro body.

The plastic backs have multy purpose - I use then to protect my cameras and lenses when I camping in wet tents.



Yes this solution doesn't look cool, a gearofob with deep wallet and heavy back staing at home will laugh on it.