[joachim]

Hi anyone seen a good discussion on or measurements of the delay in an EVFs or a live view screen over optical finders? I noticed that when taking pictures of people I am often late when using the screen on my E-P1 or X20. I feel using the optical finder on the X20 does improve matters but framing is obviously less accurate.


Rem: Imaging-Resource has good measurements on shutter lag but doesn't seem to measure the finder lag.

[Brightcolours]

I have read that the simplest way to try and measure it is using a high speed camera, like some of the high speed Casio compact digitals, and video the view finder/LCD and the "scene" at the same time, and record a flash of light. 

I also have read that the lag increases with lower light conditions, because they try to keep the EVF feed "clean".

[Sylvain]

From the top of my head, I'd say display lag, EVF lag, depends also on the viewed subject. A rapid change of lighting, colours, will affect how fast a pixel reaches the new state, along with other effects like ghosting if motion is involved,....

 

Also, it seems it will depend on the used technology too and that OLED are theoretically much faster 0.01ms vs typical 1-16ms for LCD technology (IPS, TN,...). Then, there is input lag, caused by the system before the panel circuitry and probably a few other parameters, and then shutter lag, ...

 

I'd guess it's going to be round 30ms all in all :-P for the EVF only? Just a totally wild guess.

 

But I'm not sure it's a "new problem" to look at while shutter lag are still in tens of milliseconds ? I mean, you're still going to need "sensing/planning" ahead of pressing the shutter.

 

Greetings,

S.

[joachim]

I have read that the simplest way to try and measure it is using a high speed camera, like some of the high speed Casio compact digitals, and video the view finder/LCD and the "scene" at the same time, and record a flash of light. 

I also have read that the lag increases with lower light conditions, because they try to keep the EVF feed "clean".

Thanks. You know a website that publishes the results of this?

[joachim]

From the top of my head, I'd say display lag, EVF lag, depends also on the viewed subject. A rapid change of lighting, colours, will affect how fast a pixel reaches the new state, along with other effects like ghosting if motion is involved,....

 

Also, it seems it will depend on the used technology too and that OLED are theoretically much faster 0.01ms vs typical 1-16ms for LCD technology (IPS, TN,...). Then, there is input lag, caused by the system before the panel circuitry and probably a few other parameters, and then shutter lag, ...

 

I'd guess it's going to be round 30ms all in all :-P for the EVF only? Just a totally wild guess.

 

But I'm not sure it's a "new problem" to look at while shutter lag are still in tens of milliseconds ? I mean, you're still going to need "sensing/planning" ahead of pressing the shutter.

 

Greetings,

S.

Quick SLRs have about 50 ms of a shutter lag - and electronic first shuttered cams can be substantially faster than this e.g. Fuji X100s is 11ms according to IR. So your guessed finder lag figures are in the same magnitude. Though I would not be surprised if an oldish E-P1 hat way mor than this.


But you are right - for practical purposes one has to add the two.

[joachim]

On a related note: Fuji claims the new X-T1 has a finder lag of only 5ms. That advertisement suggests to me that there were issues in the past. Looking into BC's contribution, they don't specify the brightness level that 5ms is valid for.

[Brightcolours]

Thanks. You know a website that publishes the results of this?

No, sorry.. I have not found any systematic measurements on any website.

[joachim]

Quick SLRs have about 50 ms of a shutter lag - and electronic first shuttered cams can be substantially faster than this e.g. Fuji X100s is 11ms according to IR. So your guessed finder lag figures are in the same magnitude. Though I would not be surprised if an oldish E-P1 hat way mor than this.

But you are right - for practical purposes one has to add the two.

Fuji says that 5ms is about 10 times better than what is typical - which I read is what it is with the x100, X-Pro1 and X-E1. That would be about 50ms, which is surprisingly close to Sylvain's estimate of 30ms.


I thing this is perhaps the biggest thing about the X-T1. Still the X100(s) is the king, with optical finder and 11ms shutter lag (prefocussed). The interchangeable lens cams have about 50ms shutter lag.

[arvydas]

IMO here is the illustration of the test that BC has mentioned; and here is another version, just taken with more conventional fps (and less valid, I think).

 

A.

[Sylvain]

On a related note: Fuji claims the new X-T1 has a finder lag of only 5ms. That advertisement suggests to me that there were issues in the past. Looking into BC's contribution, they don't specify the brightness level that 5ms is valid for.

 

Interestingly, the new cheaper OM-D is also said to have visibly reduced EVF lag (pekkapotka). So it seems this is a field of progress lately, This table http://photographylife.com/fuji-x-t1-vs-...-om-d-e-m1 says the T1 has 5ms vs 29ms for the E-M1. About right where I guessed.

 

The rear E-P1 lcd was indeed rather behind, or perhaps was it more visible because of the length arm viewing : you see the real scene anyway.

 

That T1 sure sounds like a speed demon.