[mst]

Georg, welcome on board

[thxbb12]

Yes, he was looking for something with even less DOF and realized that for this particular need FF would be a better fit. Plus, he already has the XF 56 APD and there is not much difference in the ability to isolate the subject from the background (so, the quantity of bokeh, the quality might be a different issue), definitely not enough to justify the difference in weight and price. Since he bought the lens new in a store, he couldn't return it, so offered it on a forum, just days after he bought it new.

Well, if all of... that... helped you get a spankin' new lens at a discount price, guess it's a good thing.
I'd like to see the review of that, even though I wouldn't get this lens when switching to Fuji (which is now out of question due to the unfavourable exchange rate).

Rover, out of curiosity, from which system are you switching to Fuji ?

[Brightcolours]

The APD has less subject isolation than the non-APD. The non-APD will have about the same subject isolation as the 50mm f1, because the apertures are about the same size. From what I have seen, the 50mm f1 appears to have smoother bokeh than both 56mm f1.2 versions.

Could you please elaborate on your statement concerning the lesser subject isolation of the APD ?

The APD is a "gradual aperture". So, the further you go to the edge of the element, the less lights goes through. This results is more DOF, just like stopping down does. You get less isolation with APD from Fuji, STF from Sony or Loawa, or DS from Canon, than lenses without such elements. 

You can easily verify this in side by side images with the Fuji 56mm f1.2 and Canon RF 85mm f1.2, as both are available with and without such elements.

Fuji 56mm f1.2:
https://ivanjoshualoh.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/a01.jpg
Canon RF 85mm f1.2:
DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2DS.JPG
non-DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2.JPG
DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10266-800x533.jpg
non-DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10251-800x533.jpg

[GeorgXXL]

The APD is a "gradual aperture". So, the further you go to the edge of the element, the less lights goes through. This results is more DOF, just like stopping down does. You get less isolation with APD from Fuji, STF from Sony or Loawa, or DS from Canon, than lenses without such elements. 

You can easily verify this in side by side images with the Fuji 56mm f1.2 and Canon RF 85mm f1.2, as both are available with and without such elements.

Fuji 56mm f1.2:
https://ivanjoshualoh.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/a01.jpg
Canon RF 85mm f1.2:
DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2DS.JPG
non-DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2.JPG
DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10266-800x533.jpg
non-DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10251-800x533.jpg

Hello Brightcolours,

first I will out me as the previous owner of mst's 50 f1.0... I still own the 56APD, a Canon EF85 f1.2 (not RF) and do mostly portrait and shootings.

Before I bought the APD I did a test shooting with a borrowed non-APD 56. That was actually some time ago already.
The "gain" of depth of field is in my opinion highly theoretical. I couldn't make out any differences in my tests, and when I look very closely at the photo you provided (56mm comparison), I don't see that either. What I can clearly see is the much smoother "edges" in the bokeh, a property of the lens that finally convinced me of buying one.

Concerning the brightness, the f1.2 of the APD are considered a f1.7 of the non APD-version, this much I can confirm, either the ISO is higher or the shutter is longer for the same photo. But when you turn the non-APD to f1.7, the DOF is less shallow than that of the ADP-version at 1.2, but that is barely noticeable. The AF in very low light situations suffers also a little bit from the "f1.7", at least on the X-T2.

And then came the 50 f1.0. I had the (in hindsight very optimistic) hope that the DOF would be noticeably more shallow. It is, but not to an extend I hoped for. It's fast, good AF performance, it's sharp. It's heavy, it's expensive.

So I bought an almost new EOS RP for my EF85, that's only slightly bigger and heavier than the XT-4/50mm, with very shallow DOF and the creamiest bokeh. The money for this combination is about the same then just for the Fuji lens alone. This combination is my stay-in-the-studio-"portrait gun" now, for everything else I use Fuji.

All in all, I had to learn again what I already learned before, full format is full format is full format ;-)

-Georg

[thxbb12]

The APD is a "gradual aperture". So, the further you go to the edge of the element, the less lights goes through. This results is more DOF, just like stopping down does. You get less isolation with APD from Fuji, STF from Sony or Loawa, or DS from Canon, than lenses without such elements. 

You can easily verify this in side by side images with the Fuji 56mm f1.2 and Canon RF 85mm f1.2, as both are available with and without such elements.

Fuji 56mm f1.2:
https://ivanjoshualoh.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/a01.jpg
Canon RF 85mm f1.2:
DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2DS.JPG
non-DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2.JPG
DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10266-800x533.jpg
non-DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10251-800x533.jpg

Hello Brightcolours,

first I will out me as the previous owner of mst's 50 f1.0... I still own the 56APD, a Canon EF85 f1.2 (not RF) and do mostly portrait and shootings.

Before I bought the APD I did a test shooting with a borrowed non-APD 56. That was actually some time ago already.
The "gain" of depth of field is in my opinion highly theoretical. I couldn't make out any differences in my tests, and when I look very closely at the photo you provided (56mm comparison), I don't see that either. What I can clearly see is the much smoother "edges" in the bokeh, a property of the lens that finally convinced me of buying one.

Concerning the brightness, the f1.2 of the APD are considered a f1.7 of the non APD-version, this much I can confirm, either the ISO is higher or the shutter is longer for the same photo. But when you turn the non-APD to f1.7, the DOF is less shallow than that of the ADP-version at 1.2, but that is barely noticeable. The AF in very low light situations suffers also a little bit from the "f1.7", at least on the X-T2.

And then came the 50 f1.0. I had the (in hindsight very optimistic) hope that the DOF would be noticeably more shallow. It is, but not to an extend I hoped for. It's fast, good AF performance, it's sharp. It's heavy, it's expensive.

So I bought an almost new EOS RP for my EF85, that's only slightly bigger and heavier than the XT-4/50mm, with very shallow DOF and the creamiest bokeh. The money for this combination is about the same then just for the Fuji lens alone. This combination is my stay-in-the-studio-"portrait gun" now, for everything else I use Fuji.

All in all, I had to learn again what I already learned before, full format is full format is full format ;-)

-Georg

Given you own an Canon RP, why not getting the R 85 f1.2 lens for it? It would be the ultimate portrait lens. The R 50 f1.2 seems amazing too if you value shorter distance or more environmental portraits.

The thing is these 2 lenses are crazy expensive so I guess the EF85 is a bargain in comparasion ;-)

[GeorgXXL]

Given you own an Canon RP, why not getting the R 85 f1.2 lens for it? It would be the ultimate portrait lens. The R 50 f1.2 seems amazing too if you value shorter distance or more environmental portraits.

The thing is these 2 lenses are crazy expensive so I guess the EF85 is a bargain in comparasion ;-)

It's 3000€ for the lens alone, and my "portrait gun" is working well enough :-)

[toni-a]

I am an owner if EOSRP along with many bodies, like you I first underestimated it, then I found it is very capable, after the latest firmware update eye autofocus got much better. Unless availability of lenses is an issue, don't underestimate what EOSRP can do especially for portraits.
I use nothing but EF lenses via adapter, their prices dropped significantly lately and they perform very well on RF bodies

[Klaus]

The APD has less subject isolation than the non-APD. The non-APD will have about the same subject isolation as the 50mm f1, because the apertures are about the same size. From what I have seen, the 50mm f1 appears to have smoother bokeh than both 56mm f1.2 versions.

Could you please elaborate on your statement concerning the lesser subject isolation of the APD ?

The APD is a "gradual aperture". So, the further you go to the edge of the element, the less lights goes through. This results is more DOF, just like stopping down does. You get less isolation with APD from Fuji, STF from Sony or Loawa, or DS from Canon, than lenses without such elements. 

You can easily verify this in side by side images with the Fuji 56mm f1.2 and Canon RF 85mm f1.2, as both are available with and without such elements.

Fuji 56mm f1.2:
https://ivanjoshualoh.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/a01.jpg
Canon RF 85mm f1.2:
DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2DS.JPG
non-DS:
https://downloads.canon.com/nw/learn/launches/2019/may/articles/two-powerful-canon-portrait-lenses-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-vs-the-rf-85mm-f12-l-usm-ds/Sample_image_RF851.2.JPG
DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10266-800x533.jpg
non-DS:
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/03/APB10251-800x533.jpg

The Fuji APD filter has a light loss of merely ~2/3 f-stops - that's just irrelevant. How much effective loss does that translate to? 1/10th f-stop?
The Canon DS has a light loss of ~1.5 f-stops.

[Rover]

Yes, he was looking for something with even less DOF and realized that for this particular need FF would be a better fit. Plus, he already has the XF 56 APD and there is not much difference in the ability to isolate the subject from the background (so, the quantity of bokeh, the quality might be a different issue), definitely not enough to justify the difference in weight and price. Since he bought the lens new in a store, he couldn't return it, so offered it on a forum, just days after he bought it new.

Well, if all of... that... helped you get a spankin' new lens at a discount price, guess it's a good thing.
I'd like to see the review of that, even though I wouldn't get this lens when switching to Fuji (which is now out of question due to the unfavourable exchange rate).

Rover, out of curiosity, from which system are you switching to Fuji ?

I shelved the idea due to not having enough money (likely, indefinitely). But now I'm shooting with Canon EF.