Hi Lars,
We had a discussion on the 7D, in a 7D vs 5D II topic, where I mentioned the problems I had with the 7D VF and its tunnel vision aspect, especially in combination with th efact that I have to wear glasses.
Today I had the opportunity to compare the 550D, 50D and 7D side by side, with the same lens, so I thought I'd share my experience here.
Essentially, the 550D is the only camera of the three where I have a complete overview of the entire focusing screen without having to move my head/eye. With the 50D I have to move a little, and with the 7D a lot.
The "amount" of tunnel view experience not only depends on the camera body, but also the lens used. It si worst with the 7D, slightly less so with 50D, and slightly less again with 550D. The worst experience is with 18-135 IS at 135 mm, followed by 15-85 IS at 85 mm, and least with the 18-55 IS.
Do note that this is the case for me, having to wear spectacles all the time.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
Must say I was surprised by what you said in that other thread, and in this one. I must say I don't wear glasses, but I shot over 4,000 pics with my 7D at the weekend (incidentally all on one charge of one LP-E6, which I found a remarkable performance), and found that even with sunglasses I could see the whole screen no problem.
[quote name='wimg' date='02 June 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1275520584' post='111']
Essentially, the 550D is the only camera of the three where I have a complete overview of the entire focusing screen without having to move my head/eye. With the 50D I have to move a little, and with the 7D a lot.
The "amount" of tunnel view experience not only depends on the camera body, but also the lens used. It si worst with the 7D, slightly less so with 50D, and slightly less again with 550D.[/quote]
When you say it is worst with 7D, I suppose it means you need to move your eye the most.
I guess some people just enjoy having the scene fill their entire field of view while others don't.
[quote name='Nick' date='03 June 2010 - 01:59 AM' timestamp='1275526774' post='114']
Must say I was surprised by what you said in that other thread, and in this one. I must say I don't wear glasses, but I shot over 4,000 pics with my 7D at the weekend (incidentally all on one charge of one LP-E6, which I found a remarkable performance), and found that even with sunglasses I could see the whole screen no problem.
[/quote]
Hi Nick,
As I mentioned in the previous thread too, I do have weird eyes, which may contribute to this. However, I also think that this is something to consider before buying a camera anyway.
I have been using FF dslr cameras for close on two years now, and my conclusion is that I can't really go back to APS-C, except maybe to the 550D as an additional, lighter camera (although I am really hoping for Canon to come out with an RF type camera with interchangeable lenses <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />).
Obviously, this may be different for other people.
The original thread was about the 7D vs 5D II, whether the latter was worth the extra cost, and my main argument was really about what is important to the user/buyer, and this is different for everybody. What I personally didn't like were some of the blanket type statements made. I do think that both your experience and mine are both valid, and essentially indicate that what is good or works for one, may not be optimal for the other, and vice versa.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
[quote name='thw' date='03 June 2010 - 05:43 AM' timestamp='1275540196' post='115']
When you say it is worst with 7D, I suppose it means you need to move your eye the most.
I guess some people just enjoy having the scene fill their entire field of view while others don't.
[/quote]
Yes, that is what I mean. I find this important with regard to composition. I date from the old school of photography, where we did cropping by framing, not afterwards. In order to do so, I do need to see the whole field in one go <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />.
I also do appreciate that this is difficult, considering I have to wear glasses all the time.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
About three years ago I've had my eyes tested, as a result of some suspicious headaches. The results were absolutely perfect; 20/20, and a bit more than 180 degrees for the visual field. No traces of retina damage, no nothing.
Still, I feel the same as wim about the tunnel vision in 7D. I used a fair bit of cameras, film and digital: an old Praktica, Canon 500N-QD, 5DmkII, 1DsMkII, 350D, 40D, Nikon D300, D700, and the 7D is the only one that somehow restricted my field of vision. It's not about magnification and it's not about the real or apparent size of the viewfinder; maybe, just maybe it has something to do with eyepoint relief, but even there 7D has one of the biggest distances. I've tried removing the rubber eyepiece and it made no difference; it looks almost like the outer frame is too small for the actual image produced by the pentaprism; under no circumstances I could see both sides (left/right), no matter how far or close was my eye; without glasses, of course.
I had to constantly scan the frame in the viewfinder, which was quite disruptive; I was doing the 7D test during a race... While for all practical purposes I felt that the 7D was a better fit for me, even above the 1DmkIV, the viewfinder issue continues to bug me; for action pictures it can be annoying 'cause you simply don't have the time to intently stare at the extremes of the frame. For this kind of shooting, the 100% viewfinder has no value over the 98 (or even 95) percent ones.
ragsnoldiron
Unregistered
I agree with you wim, and came to digital slrs from still using the Canon F1 with a speed finder attached to easy my viewing experience. So far I have found the original 1D and 1D II/n the best for viewing through, and I have a very hard time with the other models (I also use Ds II).
Life has improved immensely for me since having corrective laser surgery for my astigmatism and myopia, and after decades I am now free of glasses and contacts lenses (for awhile at least). Try looking through the viewfinder of the older 1D IIn when you get a chance, it is a nice balance I think of 100% and eye relief (though I wish there was a dedicated speed finder model).
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/LA-Olympic1984/index.htm
I looked though the Olympus E3 and considered that system, but went with the 1D IIn originally; when I looked at the 7D I found its viewfinder reminiscent of the E-3 I tested.
wim - I can see where this would be at least psychologically frustrating, but keep in mind with the 50D and 550D you have tunnel vision even if you can see everything in the view finder with out moving your eye because it isn't a 100% viewfinder in them. You are only seeing the center crop tunnel. At least with the 7D you can move your eye and see the real frame the camera will capture.
[quote name='wim' date='03 June 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1275520584' post='111']
Hi Lars,
We had a discussion on the 7D, in a 7D vs 5D II topic, where I mentioned the problems I had with the 7D VF and its tunnel vision aspect, especially in combination with th efact that I have to wear glasses.
Today I had the opportunity to compare the 550D, 50D and 7D side by side, with the same lens, so I thought I'd share my experience here.
Essentially, the 550D is the only camera of the three where I have a complete overview of the entire focusing screen without having to move my head/eye. With the 50D I have to move a little, and with the 7D a lot.
The "amount" of tunnel view experience not only depends on the camera body, but also the lens used. It si worst with the 7D, slightly less so with 50D, and slightly less again with 550D. The worst experience is with 18-135 IS at 135 mm, followed by 15-85 IS at 85 mm, and least with the 18-55 IS.
Do note that this is the case for me, having to wear spectacles all the time.
Kind regards, Wim
[/quote]
[quote name='jitteringjr' date='05 June 2010 - 08:00 AM' timestamp='1275717612' post='234']
wim - I can see where this would be at least psychologically frustrating, but keep in mind with the 50D and 550D you have tunnel vision even if you can see everything in the view finder with out moving your eye because it isn't a 100% viewfinder in them. You are only seeing the center crop tunnel. At least with the 7D you can move your eye and see the real frame the camera will capture.
[/quote]
Yes, that is all true. However, I don't have this with the 1D series of cameras, or the 5Ds I currently own... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />.
It is not as if I am stuck right now, this whole thread was really a follow-up on the "Is the 5D II worth the extra money over the 7D" thread on the old board. I think it is, not only because of the VF, but also for other reasons. I would like a 3D, i.e., a 5D II with the additional stuff the 7D has, but that is another topic <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
[quote name='Symple' date='04 June 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1275677714' post='216']
I agree with you wim, and came to digital slrs from still using the Canon F1 with a speed finder attached to easy my viewing experience. So far I have found the original 1D and 1D II/n the best for viewing through, and I have a very hard time with the other models (I also use Ds II).
Life has improved immensely for me since having corrective laser surgery for my astigmatism and myopia, and after decades I am now free of glasses and contacts lenses (for awhile at least). Try looking through the viewfinder of the older 1D IIn when you get a chance, it is a nice balance I think of 100% and eye relief (though I wish there was a dedicated speed finder model).
[url="http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/LA-Olympic1984/index.htm"]http://www.mir.com.m...c1984/index.htm[/url]
I looked though the Olympus E3 and considered that system, but went with the 1D IIn originally; when I looked at the 7D I found its viewfinder reminiscent of the E-3 I tested.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, surgery won't help me with my eye problems, unless I have both lenses and corneas replaced (which is something I will not consider with the current state of technology/medical treatment). I've tried scleral lenses for a while, essentially hard lenses the sizeof soft ones with a bulb like feature over the entire iris, but getting them in and out is very hard, almost impossible for my quite deep seated eyes. Those did give me slightly improved vision, however, although glasses still are best, be it that I have to change the lenses every 3 months or thereabouts.
My eye problem is one of the reasons to go with Canon, BTW, when I switched to digital. Canon cameras allow me to focus manually; with other brands I don't even get a (properly) sharp image in the VF. I know that others with the same eye problem have the same experience... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
|
