[popo]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1311327840' post='10192']

However, I would appreciate a really micro-system (more micro than MFT)

[/quote]

Nano-FourThirds anyone? <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[mst]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1311334813' post='10195']

The more serious rumors talk about a 2.5-2.6x crop (compared to FF).

[/quote]



The sensor in that image looks a lot smaller to me.



-- Markus

[Klaus]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1311335116' post='10196']

Expect "Made in Malaysia" on Nikon DSLRs soon <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]



I'm sometimes really wondering whether this is all worth it - I mean the outsourcing of just everything to different countries. The labor costs share in high end products should be rather small. If this last percentage point does really matter there something substantially wrong somewhere anyway.

If you can sell a watch made in Switzerland or a Mercedes made in Germany it should be possible to sell high end photo stuff made in Japan. Whether such a mass production item like a DSLR costs 500EUR or 550EUR doesn't really make a difference in the final marketplace and for the peace of mind it feels better to buy a product from a first world country at least every once in while. Well, I reckon I'm just naive and only money talks.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1311337024' post='10199']

I'm sometimes really wondering whether this is all worth it - I mean the outsourcing of just everything to different countries. The labor costs share in high end products should be rather small. If this last percentage point does really matter there something substantially wrong somewhere anyway.

If you can sell a watch made in Switzerland or a Mercedes made in Germany it should be possible to sell high end photo stuff made in Japan. Whether such a mass production item like a DSLR costs 500EUR or 550EUR doesn't really make a difference in the final marketplace and for the peace of mind it feels better to buy a product from a first world country at least every once in while. Well, I reckon I'm just naive and only money talks.

[/quote]

I don't think this has much to do with money, more with Japan being one big earth quake zone. The high(er) end DSLR plant was hit hard with last tsunami.. Moving the production from that plant to Malaysia makes sense in that respect.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='mst' timestamp='1311336496' post='10198']

The sensor in that image looks a lot smaller to me.



-- Markus

[/quote]

It does??? Look at above comparison Lomskij has made. That for sure looks like 2.5/2.6x crop.



Look at the red and the yellow:



Matches what Lomskij has posted just about perfectly.



Besides that, there have been a lot of lens patents filed which point to a 2.5x sensor- camera.



Take this patent application for instance:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%2220090147376%09%22&OS=%2220090147376

"Preferably, in the optical system (zoom lens system) in accordance with the embodiment, the distance (back focus) on the optical axis from the image-side surface of the lens component arranged closest to the image to the image surface in the shortest state is about 10 to 30 mm. In the optical system (zoom lens system) in accordance with the embodiment, the image height is preferably 5 to 12.5 mm, more preferably 5 to 9.5 mm."

So... lens designed for use with an image height between 5 to 9.5 mm.



"FIG. 13A is an aberration chart upon focusing at infinity in the wide-angle end state (f=30.00 mm). FIG. 13B is an aberration chart upon focusing at infinity in the intermediate focal length state (f=66.44 mm). FIG. 13C is an aberration chart upon focusing at infinity in the telephoto end state (f=107.09 mm)"

So... a zoom lens with a 30-107mm focal length range.



"Preferably, the zoom lens system ZL in accordance with this embodiment is a so-called telephoto zoom lens system including long focal lengths such as about 80 mm at the wide-angle end and about 300 mm at the telephoto end in terms of 35-mm film format. More preferably, the zoom lens system ZL in accordance with this embodiment has a variable power ratio of about 3 to 4. More preferably, in the zoom lens system ZL in accordance with this embodiment, the distance from the image-side surface of the lens component arranged closest to the image to the image surface in the shortest state (the wide-angle end state in each of examples which will be explained later) is about 10 to 30 mm."

They talk about 135 format (35mm) equivalent of about 80-300mm.

300mm would make it a 2.8x crop sensor. The 5 to 9.5mm image height make that crop factor a bit flexible.

[Guest]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1311334813' post='10195']Only a silly dpreview post[/quote]



That´s why you post more than 30 messages per week at dpreview for a present total of close to 5500 messages? Your crusade against the silliness over there?

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Sammy' timestamp='1311337864' post='10202']

That´s why you post more than 30 messages per week at dpreview for a present total of close to 5500 messages? Your crusade against the silliness over there?

[/quote]

Did I say dpreview was silly? No, I said that post on dpreview was silly.



If I write "a crashed green Mercedes", do you interpret that as green being crashed? Or that the Mercedes has crashed.

Or do you interpret that as all green Mercedeses being crashed by default?

[Guest]

Based on lens patents there could be 45(efr)/1.2 & 85(efr)/1.2 lenses - that should be about as good as m43 offerings (if price is not too high).



Zooms are expected to be no faster.

[Tiz]

"For my kind of (private) photography I consider APS-C or possibly MFT to be the sweet spot. Give me that in a package which is as small as possible and I'm happy."



For my kind of photography (outdoor, trekking) I am not sure anymore whether MFT is really the sweet spot. I recently bought the Canon SX220 (super-tiny sensor, 26(28)-400mm) and I am wondering whether the results are "good enough" for me...



http://www.abload.de/img/crw_0131-bearbeitet-2-inoh.jpg

[Guest]

Why not?



A crop 2,5 system would fill the (huge) gap between 4/3" and 1/1,7" sensors.



Maybe it#s possible to make a really small system with such a sensor size and this would make a nice travel camera. In my opinion even my camera with a 10 year old 5MP 2/3" sensor design makes quite good pictures at ISO 100 and a modern design 10-12MP crop 2,5 sensor should make good ISO 100 pictures and decent ISO 400 pictures and grainy but somehow useable ISO 1600 pictures. A travel camera wouldn't need more in my opinion.

I could even imagine a 2/3" system, only the Pentax Q with that ultra tiny 1/2,3" looks not promising enough to me (I have never seen a good ISO 100 picture from a 1/2,3" sensor)