07-17-2010, 09:53 PM
Hi Lars,
[quote name='larsrc' date='16 July 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1279301978' post='1052']
Is there another name for that than HDR? [/quote]
No, but there are different ways of handling this. "Proper" HDR requires the use of 32-bit rather than 16-bit or 8-bit files, and the software that can handle that. However, anything beyond 8-bit, where you try and and get the most out of a photograph, where you compress more than 8 bits per colour channel into a 8-bit image in nicely graduated tones, could be called HDR if you like.
In a way it is an extension of the good old Ansel Adams principle of Zone-photography, AFAIAC, where in effect you try to do similar stuff.
I do think, however, that the most important part of this is the visualisation beforehand, when you capture the image, otherwise it could become a cheap and plasticky effect in my mind.
Why lose in the middle? That would be by choice only, AFAIAC. I think the idea is to define cut-offs at the bottom and top of the DR (where do you want your absolute black, and where your absolute white), determine which parts are the most important (+/- Zone V, if you don't mind me saying), create a nice gradation from the remaining top to bottom DR (s-curved ideally <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />), and then compress that into a tonal range that fits within an 8-bit jpeg.
Good question. I think currently it is. A nice example, I think, was the picture Miro posted a while ago, of a pier going out to sea, from underneath the pier, where the details of the decking from underneath were nicely visible, but so was the sky.
Well, even in Photoshop you can do that, by masking stuff, and putting those in separate layers. You need to work with transparency and all that. The tools from Nik Software do make it easier to specifically deal with certain parts of the image, Topaz Labs tools mainly do work on the whole image, although they recently also developed a very clever masking tool, if I am not mistaken.
Personally, I nver just process a complete, long tone curve, because the results are never satisfactory to me when I do just that. But then, with "proper" HDR tools you also don't. There are quite a few settings you have to adjust and take into account, and they all relate to how the final image is going to look, and essentially these paremeters seem to work on different parts of the DR and tonal curves in the different pictures one creates which will be joined together for the final result. I prefer to use Nik and Topaz, however, because I use those for normal processing too.
Kind regards, Wim
[quote name='larsrc' date='16 July 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1279301978' post='1052']
Is there another name for that than HDR? [/quote]
No, but there are different ways of handling this. "Proper" HDR requires the use of 32-bit rather than 16-bit or 8-bit files, and the software that can handle that. However, anything beyond 8-bit, where you try and and get the most out of a photograph, where you compress more than 8 bits per colour channel into a 8-bit image in nicely graduated tones, could be called HDR if you like.
In a way it is an extension of the good old Ansel Adams principle of Zone-photography, AFAIAC, where in effect you try to do similar stuff.
I do think, however, that the most important part of this is the visualisation beforehand, when you capture the image, otherwise it could become a cheap and plasticky effect in my mind.
Quote:What HDR in its original definition can do is hold a very large dynamic range, and then you can compress it into a smaller, outputtable range, but then losing some of the gradations in the middle.
Why lose in the middle? That would be by choice only, AFAIAC. I think the idea is to define cut-offs at the bottom and top of the DR (where do you want your absolute black, and where your absolute white), determine which parts are the most important (+/- Zone V, if you don't mind me saying), create a nice gradation from the remaining top to bottom DR (s-curved ideally <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />), and then compress that into a tonal range that fits within an 8-bit jpeg.Quote:But adjusting different parts of the image differently can give a much nicer effect, much more subtle and with better tones. Is there a good name for that, or is it all just mangled together under HDR?
Good question. I think currently it is. A nice example, I think, was the picture Miro posted a while ago, of a pier going out to sea, from underneath the pier, where the details of the decking from underneath were nicely visible, but so was the sky.
Quote:I haven't played around with HDR and the like as much as I'd hoped; apart from doing it by hand in PS, are there any programs where you (perhaps with some help) select areas to tone separately rather than just adjusting one extra-long tone curve?
-Lars
Well, even in Photoshop you can do that, by masking stuff, and putting those in separate layers. You need to work with transparency and all that. The tools from Nik Software do make it easier to specifically deal with certain parts of the image, Topaz Labs tools mainly do work on the whole image, although they recently also developed a very clever masking tool, if I am not mistaken.
Personally, I nver just process a complete, long tone curve, because the results are never satisfactory to me when I do just that. But then, with "proper" HDR tools you also don't. There are quite a few settings you have to adjust and take into account, and they all relate to how the final image is going to look, and essentially these paremeters seem to work on different parts of the DR and tonal curves in the different pictures one creates which will be joined together for the final result. I prefer to use Nik and Topaz, however, because I use those for normal processing too.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
