(03-07-2020, 05:20 PM)davidmanze Wrote: As a matter of interest ...... do you own a Leica .. at the moment ??
I still have my M9 and the M Monochrome (1st version with CCD)... but only because I haven't managed to clean the sensors properly, take images of both cameras and list them on eBay. The M9 I bought new when it was released, so it was my casual fun camera for around 10 years. The Monochrome I bought used last year (and learned a lot with it... it's basically a fully manual camera, the metering is useless when you use colour filters).
I have also used several other digital M cameras, as well as a TL that I owned for a while and I was able to take a few shots with a friend's S2.
None of the "modern" Leica systems (like TL, SL or S) I find tempting, in my eyes they offer less features than any competition combined with twice or three times the price of the competition. I also never saw the magic that others see in the image quality of Leica glass. In fact, I found many Leica lenses sub-average when it comes to flare and bokeh.
The M system can be fun and definitely helpful in improving photographic skills, since it's the most feature-reduced system there is. It's not a system, though, that is in any way tempting for gearheads. Nor is it meant to be.
One thing where Leica is way ahead of the competition, though, is build quality. Anything they build feels incredibly solid and high quality.
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Will anyone at Leica care for a blink of a moment what davemanze expects from a camera when he buys one? How often do you buy a new camera? Is there a slice of a chance that you ever would buy a Leica?
So, why trolling about an optical part of an EVF which each mirrorless camera has, but still that doesn’t mean it has to have a mirror? Or mildly put: why on Earth are you worrying about Leica’s sales numbers? This thing will find it’s buyers who will be convinced it’s just the right tool for their job. There are not that much of choices for people who need a 1/1000 capable central shutter. Hasselblad, Leica, PhaseOne - all the “cheap” brands... and amongst them, the Leica might or might not be the worst choice.
But why bother? That thing is not meant to snap some storks or egrets, all the “problems” you mention basically do not exist as an influence to decisions for it’s buyers. Most of them will have more than one system for their professional needs. Or their status as bloody rich photogs. This camera is more useful than Nikon’s Noct 58/0.95.
And I agree with BC: this has nothing to do with L-mount.
(03-07-2020, 06:19 PM)JJ_SO Wrote: Will anyone at Leica care for a blink of a moment what davemanze expects from a camera when he buys one? How often do you buy a new camera? Is there a slice of a chance that you ever would buy a Leica?
So, why trolling about an optical part of an EVF which each mirrorless camera has, but still that doesn’t mean it has to have a mirror? Or mildly put: why on Earth are you worrying about Leica’s sales numbers? This thing will find it’s buyers who will be convinced it’s just the right tool for their job. There are not that much of choices for people who need a 1/1000 capable central shutter. Hasselblad, Leica, PhaseOne - all the “cheap” brands... and amongst them, the Leica might or might not be the worst choice.
But why bother? That thing is not meant to snap some storks or egrets, all the “problems” you mention basically do not exist as an influence to decisions for it’s buyers. Most of them will have more than one system for their professional needs. Or their status as bloody rich photogs. This camera is more useful than Nikon’s Noct 58/0.95.
And I agree with BC: this has nothing to do with L-mount.
...... yes, nobody will care what I think about the rear screen ...... that's why I write it !! ....... although a few reviewers will mention it .... with all the respectful bowing and scraping that reverent Leica reviewers are accustomed to bestowing upon them ....... the camera will no doubt find many a happy new owner with it's high resolution sensor.
Ah ha ...... the Noct 58/ 0.95 ....... the lens which drained Nikon of many of their resources that could have been better spent elsewhere .... we all have our cross to bear ..... this is yours ....
(03-07-2020, 05:53 PM)mst Wrote: (03-07-2020, 05:20 PM)davidmanze Wrote: As a matter of interest ...... do you own a Leica .. at the moment ??
I still have my M9 and the M Monochrome (1st version with CCD)... but only because I haven't managed to clean the sensors properly, take images of both cameras and list them on eBay. The M9 I bought new when it was released, so it was my casual fun camera for around 10 years. The Monochrome I bought used last year (and learned a lot with it... it's basically a fully manual camera, the metering is useless when you use colour filters).
I have also used several other digital M cameras, as well as a TL that I owned for a while and I was able to take a few shots with a friend's S2.
None of the "modern" Leica systems (like TL, SL or S) I find tempting, in my eyes they offer less features than any competition combined with twice or three times the price of the competition. I also never saw the magic that others see in the image quality of Leica glass. In fact, I found many Leica lenses sub-average when it comes to flare and bokeh.
The M system can be fun and definitely helpful in improving photographic skills, since it's the most feature-reduced system there is. It's not a system, though, that is in any way tempting for gear-heads. Nor is it meant to be.
One thing where Leica is way ahead of the competition, though, is build quality. Anything they build feels incredibly solid and high quality.
Quite a list!
Yes, whatever one says about Leica, their mechanical construction is second to none ...... especially for the lenses, their famous "cut in half" display lenses show their extreme fine quality and compactness.
Like Rolex like Leica ..... it's all about the brand !!
03-08-2020, 08:24 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020, 08:26 AM by Brightcolours.)
Well, Joju, The Leica S/S2/S3 just really have a mirror, they really are DSLRs, just like Pentax' medium format effort, just less ugly. That is why Dave was pointing out the view finder tell tale.
03-08-2020, 10:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020, 10:21 AM by JJ_SO.)
Interesting. I’m just not interested enough in Leica or what the S3 is - besides a camera with slightly oversized sensor. Thanks for clarifying (and saving me the time to find it out). But in DPRreview’s text and in Leica’s product pictures is no hint at all that a mirror is involved*. They show a sensor in cleaning mode (mirror up), the sensor without camera body and the body cover - as if the mirror is not worth mentioning and “you can shoot it mirrorless” is the message to be taken.
* except the front line of the mirror mechanism when in “mirror up”.
(03-08-2020, 10:21 AM)JJ_SO Wrote: Interesting. I’m just not interested enough in Leica or what the S3 is - besides a camera with slightly oversized sensor. Thanks for clarifying (and saving me the time to find it out). But in DPRreview’s text and in Leica’s product pictures is no hint at all that a mirror is involved*. They show a sensor in cleaning mode (mirror up), the sensor without camera body and the body cover - as if the mirror is not worth mentioning and “you can shoot it mirrorless” is the message to be taken.
* except the front line of the mirror mechanism when in “mirror up”.
I didn't get that message ......... I would say the mirror was up to show off that wonderful new 63 Mps sensor ....... as it's the main headline feature ...
...... however, with the mirror up ...... it's in live-view ... simply .... not mirror-less mode .....
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