Hello Jenben,
I share similar experience as yours. Even that I have fast lenses my best selling images are taken deeply stopped down.
Greetings,
Miro
Thanks for the liveley debate, I hadn't intended to spark off such controversy.... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
This has really made me think, and go back to what I used to do, the types of shots I used to take, and what I am looking to acheive by my next move.
I also had a long hard look at the full frame APS-C debate on the Forum.
I never used to use the standard lens on my Minolta, I nearly always had either the 100mm f2, or the 28mm on, with the other in my pocket. The majority of shots I actually take with my Eos 350D and 18-55 are at either end of the zoom range.
I have a 24mm sigma f2.8 (early nineties vintage) which does at a push, so am I barking mad to consider a Eos 5DII, along with an 85mm f1.8, a combo which I can just about afford, (I hope the missus doesn't read this forum). I can use the 75-300 while I save up for a higher quality telephoto, and a faster wide-angle.
a further thought on the Lens speed debate, it seems to me once you have a daylight filter on, you are losing another stop, and for flash you are just gobbling up the guide numbers, to the point that the cheap studio flash kit I bought many moons ago is useless.
Another thing is that the 5d is 2 years old, is it due an uplift soon? it seems to be getting heavily discounted at the moment.
[quote name='jenbenn' timestamp='1291042846' post='4567']
No he is right. I would not argue with him on that point. I am just glad that people actually do spent money on my snapshots and hang them big on their walls even so I am a damn uncreative person, with no priorities AND a bad lens. Keep in mind: you must never choose the lens according to the job, you must always buy the most creative (reads largest aperture) lens possible, otherwise your photos can only come out crap.
[/quote]
Funny man. You can stop down a f2.8 zoom exactly like a f5.6 zoom, obviously.
But contrary to the f2.8 zoom, you can't open up the f5.6 zoom more. So... with the f2.8 zoom you can do exactly the same things. And more.
Do you really buy lenses for different "jobs" with a minimum aperture in mind? (Of course you don't, but your rhetoric leads that way).
[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1291049144' post='4572']
a further thought on the Lens speed debate, it seems to me once you have a daylight filter on, you are losing another stop, and for flash you are just gobbling up the guide numbers, to the point that the cheap studio flash kit I bought many moons ago is useless.
Another thing is that the 5d is 2 years old, is it due an uplift soon? it seems to be getting heavily discounted at the moment.
[/quote]
A daylight filter shouldn't eat a full stop! While it might not be zero, to me its close enough. And in digital, you don't really need it. If you choose to you can use a protective filter which has insignificant losses.
On the 5D2 replacement, there are rumours there's something next year but traditionally Canon have done well to keep their plans secret. It happens when it happens, and I wouldn't plan for it unless you really are in no hurry at all.
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://snowporing.deviantart.com/">dA</a> Canon 7D2, 7D, 5D2, 600D, 450D, 300D IR modified, 1D, EF-S 10-18, 15-85, EF 35/2, 85/1.8, 135/2, 70-300L, 100-400L, MP-E65, Zeiss 2/50, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Olympus E-P1, Panasonic 20/1.7, Sony HX9V, Fuji X100.
[quote name='popo' timestamp='1291051468' post='4574']
A daylight filter shouldn't eat a full stop! While it might not be zero, to me its close enough. And in digital, you don't really need it. If you choose to you can use a protective filter which has insignificant losses.
On the 5D2 replacement, there are rumours there's something next year but traditionally Canon have done well to keep their plans secret. It happens when it happens, and I wouldn't plan for it unless you really are in no hurry at all.
[/quote]
Just going by my rusty theory on the effect of Daylight filters, I only use the for protection now.
I take your point about waiting for the 5Dmkiii, I probably couldn't afford it's replacement any way...
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1291050507' post='4573']
Funny man. You can stop down a f2.8 zoom exactly like a f5.6 zoom, obviously.
But contrary to the f2.8 zoom, you can't open up the f5.6 zoom more. So... with the f2.8 zoom you can do exactly the same things. And more.
Do you really buy lenses for different "jobs" with a minimum aperture in mind? (Of course you don't, but your rhetoric leads that way).
[/quote]
hint: slower lenses = greater zoom range = no lens change necassry in the decisive moment. Faster lens = less zoom range = more lens change= decisive moment may be gone after you have changed lenses/ aderse external conditions may sometimes not allow lens change(pouring rain, very dusty). So again, you cant do "more" with a faster zoom but you can do different things. What you need is a matter of your shootinmg style. There is no general better or worse here.
In addition, a 15-85 may replace three or four primes focal length wise. If you need to travel light the slow zoom may be a better ticket than the primes, if you are shooting landscapes with lots dof or reportage style in good light.Horses for causes, not primes and fast zooms for everybody. I hate communism.
genotypewriter
Unregistered
[quote name='jenbenn' timestamp='1291018085' post='4562']
Nope I didnt say that. There are situation where you definately need primes, extremly shallow dof and extremly low light applications. Primes are, however, no substitution for a zoom, if you need to be flexble and perfect framing is more important than shallow dof in given situation.
BTW, its very hard to believe that you used the zillion of lenses in your "lineup" when you didnt even notice that even an f/4 zoom on Aps-c delivers a lot shallower dof than a Point and shoot plus a faster af performance.But then maybe you were taliking about all the lenses being stopped down to f/32. who knows. Note also that your list doenst not contain the 15-85.
[/quote]
What you have is a problem in reading and comprehension, I'm sorry to say. Let me break it down... how many times do I have to tell you that I was referring to the TYPE of shots as P&S-like and not equivalence or anything? Don't you know that even DSLRs have a P&S/full-auto mode?
And how many times do I have to say that by P&S-like I was referring to the type shots that you can do EXCLUSIVELY with a 15-85 (i.e. shots the 15-85 can do and a fast prime can't do)?
Btw, your definition of "perfect framing" can be challenged on its "perfectness"... I mean, how can one be lazy and stand in one place without moving to a better perspective and still end up getting a perfect shot? Sure, it's convenient if you're shooting events for cash because it's not really about art any more. And this has nothing to do with DOF differences.
Oh btw, all the links work... tested before and now.
GTW
genotypewriter
Unregistered
[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1291049144' post='4572']
The majority of shots I actually take with my Eos 350D and 18-55 are at either end of the zoom range.[/quote]
When I first got my DSLR I naturally did a very thorough analysis of my favourite fields of view on my P&S but after getting my DSLR I found myself taking very different shots. So a change of camera, when it's significant enough, will change the way you shoot too. The 5D2 will be massively better than the 350D in terms of low light and resolution and even the focusing... those things could change the way you shoot.
[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1291049144' post='4572']
I have a 24mm sigma f2.8 (early nineties vintage) which does at a push, so am I barking mad to consider a Eos 5DII, along with an 85mm f1.8, a combo which I can just about afford, (I hope the missus doesn't read this forum). I can use the 75-300 while I save up for a higher quality telephoto, and a faster wide-angle.[/quote]
Sounds reasonable. The good thing is you're headed in the right direction (the wrong direction would be, for example, getting another APS-C).
[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1291049144' post='4572']
a further thought on the Lens speed debate, it seems to me once you have a daylight filter on, you are losing another stop, and for flash you are just gobbling up the guide numbers, to the point that the cheap studio flash kit I bought many moons ago is useless.[/quote]
Unless it's a really cheap daylight filter it shouldn't be 1 stop. But CPLs typically reduce light by 1 stop or more. If you're shooting in a studio, not sure why you'd use a daylight filter... plus I'd be shooting manual.
[quote name='bigf' timestamp='1291049144' post='4572']
Another thing is that the 5d is 2 years old, is it due an uplift soon? it seems to be getting heavily discounted at the moment.
[/quote]
There will always be something better later... the question is how much are the shots you're missing right now worth? <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
GTW
[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1291067793' post='4579']
What you have is a problem in reading and comprehension, I'm sorry to say. Let me break it down... how many times do I have to tell you that I was referring to the TYPE of shots as P&S-like and not equivalence or anything? Don't you know that even DSLRs have a P&S/full-auto mode?
And how many times do I have to say that by P&S-like I was referring to the type shots that you can do EXCLUSIVELY with a 15-85 (i.e. shots the 15-85 can do and a fast prime can't do)?
Btw, your definition of "perfect framing" can be challenged on its "perfectness"... I mean, how can one be lazy and stand in one place without moving to a better perspective and still end up getting a perfect shot? Sure, it's convenient if you're shooting events for cash because it's not really about art any more. And this has nothing to do with DOF differences.
Oh btw, all the links work... tested before and now.
GTW
[/quote]
Just out of pure curiosity - could you please define the P&S then? I.e. what is *your* understading of the P&S term? I thought that it's generally accepted that point-and-shoot refers to simplified operation, like full auto focus/aperture/exposure/etc, regardless of lens type?
[quote name='Lomskij' timestamp='1291109913' post='4594']
Just out of pure curiosity - could you please define the P&S then? I.e. what is *your* understading of the P&S term? I thought that it's generally accepted that point-and-shoot refers to simplified operation, like full auto focus/aperture/exposure/etc, regardless of lens type?
[/quote]
There are two "definitions" that always run through eachother, and to me it seems also through genotypewriter's posts.
The more "correct" one being the pointing the camera at something and just shooting a picture (which he and I identify the most likely buyers of lenses like the 15-85 and other ultra zooms to practice), and the other one being the referral to compact cameras (or cameras with a small sensor, which then include bride cameras too).
Compact cameras often are really just point and shoot devices, but not all. That mostly depends on the possibilities for the photographer the influence the capture of an image by the camera.
In his earlier post, genotypewriter likened the possibilities of lenses like the 15-85 to be like the possibilities with cameras with small sensors (the 2nd "definition"). In his post above he expands on that by talking about how a DSLR can be used as P&S (1st definition).
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