[quote name='Martin_MM' timestamp='1314481307' post='11088']
First head-to-head high ISO comparison:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3802/which-is-best-for-low-light-sony-nex-5n-or-nex-7-and-a77
Just as I thought, only average result by today´s standards. But look at 5n results! OMG, that 16mpx should have been put in A77/NEX7 bodies (to my likes...)
[/quote]
While the results from the GH2 and A77 look even more useless than the others, its a stupid comparison anyway. They are comparing the standard JPEH output, as far as I understand. If one really cares about the best performance, one would convert RAW with the best RAW converter that does not filter/smudge noise away.
So, a bit silly, that comparison...
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1314346515' post='11032']
There is the odd limitation of the aperture and/or exposure time settings one can do with the high FPS modes, which is done because closing the aperture for each shot would mess up the live view stream. So... do you have a nice 70-200mm f2.8 sports lens? Though, can't shoot it wide open. Camera sets it to f3.5. Or want to use that nice 85mm f1.8 for indoors sports? Tough! 85mm f3.5 is what you get.[/quote]
Are you saying that it's impossible to shoot wide-open in the 12 fps mode or that it's impossible to select a specific aperture? Is there another camera which can contentiously track moving subjects at 12 fps?
Quote:Then there is the AF in video. I am of the opinion that AF for video with shallow DOF devices is crap and useless, but one is free to disagree there. There are however similar limitations to the settings (both aperture and exposure time). Same as with the high speed FPS, f3.5 is what you get with f3.5 or faster lenses. Want something else? Tough. Want to set f8? f11? f6.3? Tough.
You can shoot video with full manual control, but you'll need to switch to MF. I guess Sony looks at two different audiences here - professional videographers who need complete manual control, and soccer moms / family users who want to get the video quality and responsiveness of this camera (which is probably unrivaled by any consumer camcorder) without having to work hard for it. Can you think of another camera which answers both needs better? Surely not other APS-C cameras that allow AF in video, as they are not a good match for the other audience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAySJfYR8o
If Sony gets enough flack from reviewers for the lack of manual exposure control while the camera is in AF then they're likely to fix this in a firmware update. Look at what they did with the NEX user interface after the reviews complained about it.
[quote name='boren' timestamp='1314522145' post='11095']
Are you saying that it's impossible to shoot wide-open in the 12 fps mode or that it's impossible to select a specific aperture? Is there another camera which can contentiously track moving subjects at 12 fps?
You can shoot video with full manual control, but you'll need to switch to MF. I guess Sony looks at two different audiences here - professional videographers who need complete manual control, and soccer moms / family users who want to get the video quality and responsiveness of this camera (which is probably unrivaled by any consumer camcorder) without having to work hard for it. Can you think of another camera which answers both needs better? Surely not other APS-C cameras that allow AF in video, as they are not a good match for the other audience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NAySJfYR8o
If Sony gets enough flack from reviewers for the lack of manual exposure control while the camera is in AF then they're likely to fix this in a firmware update. Look at what they did with the NEX user interface after the reviews complained about it.
[/quote]
My point is that AF in video is not desirable, and that was the whole reason for the SLT. Of course, with MF those drawbacks are gone, but then the SLT solution is a solution for something that was not broken in the first place.
They will not fix the lack of manual exposure control in video with AF, as there is a technical reason for it... since the camera uses its PD AF, it needs to lens to be open enough for the PD AF to work. They chose the f3.5-5.6 window, one would have to ask Sony engineers for the reasons behind the f3.5.
Have you all read the complete test? I tried and I got to this;
A sensor over the viewfinder detects my eye and makes the switch between the LCD and EVF, but usually doesn't make the switch fast enough, leaving me first in the dark, then I see a screen that's a little too dark at first, then my eye adjusts. It's not a comfortable set of changes, going from very bright to very dark, then to somewhat bright, so most often I and my colleagues shied away from the EVF when out in daylight, preferring the LCD."
That does it for me right away! Nothing can excuse not being able to use the EVF in the long run! Also, I find even the D7000 outdoes the A77 at 1600 ISO. So, the long and the short of it (for me) is;
I keep looking at new cameras and technology, but so far nothing comes close to my D700 (and for that sake the D300s) in overall performance (for me), except the D3S/X and the Canon comparables. I hope Nikon does not fall for the temptation of using this new tech on the advanced cameras until it is absolutely bomb proof. But <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> an 18 or 24mp sensor would be welcome any time on the D400/D4§
To me it serves no purpose pixelpeeping to death the crops from the test photos, when even, the tester says that the EVF is not good enough to use. Am I beside the point? Well maybe, but then maybe not!!<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1314523989' post='11096']
My point is that AF in video is not desirable, and that was the whole reason for the SLT.[/quote]
AF is very much desirable by the second audience I mentioned (which probably outnumber professional videographers at least a thousand to one). And the reasons why such users choose large-sensor cameras capable of video (where focus is frequently an issue) over a small-sensor camcorders have been discussed in depth, and I'm sure you're well aware of them.
Quote:They will not fix the lack of manual exposure control in video with AF, as there is a technical reason for it... since the camera uses its PD AF, it needs to lens to be open enough for the PD AF to work. They chose the f3.5-5.6 window, one would have to ask Sony engineers for the reasons behind the f3.5.
They can fix it to the same level that camera vendors such as Canon, Nikon and Pentax have - by using CDAF. However, I don't think soccer moms or professional videographers would bother to use this option. Both already have what they need with the current firmware of the camera. It's unclear to me what audience such an option would please, other than reviewers and nit-pickers of course ;-)
[quote name='Martin_MM' timestamp='1314481307' post='11088']
...
that 16mpx should have been put in A77/NEX7 bodies (to my likes...)
[/quote]
I could not agree more (concerning the Nex-7)...
Serkan
[quote name='Vieux loup' timestamp='1314527677' post='11098']
Have you all read the complete test? I tried and I got to this;
A sensor over the viewfinder detects my eye and makes the switch between the LCD and EVF, but usually doesn't make the switch fast enough, leaving me first in the dark, then I see a screen that's a little too dark at first, then my eye adjusts. It's not a comfortable set of changes, going from very bright to very dark, then to somewhat bright, so most often I and my colleagues shied away from the EVF when out in daylight, preferring the LCD."
That does it for me right away! Nothing can excuse not being able to use the EVF in the long run! Also, I find even the D7000 outdoes the A77 at 1600 ISO. So, the long and the short of it (for me) is;
I keep looking at new cameras and technology, but so far nothing comes close to my D700 (and for that sake the D300s) in overall performance (for me), except the D3S/X and the Canon comparables. I hope Nikon does not fall for the temptation of using this new tech on the advanced cameras until it is absolutely bomb proof. But <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' /> an 18 or 24mp sensor would be welcome any time on the D400/D4§
To me it serves no purpose pixelpeeping to death the crops from the test photos, when even, the tester says that the EVF is not good enough to use. Am I beside the point? Well maybe, but then maybe not!!<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=' ' />
[/quote]
Then that about a simple workaround?
Just keep your hand behind the viewfinder while you are raising the camera to your eyes. That sensor should detect any object and the EVF will be on at time.
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1314346515' post='11032']
There is the odd limitation of the aperture and/or exposure time settings one can do with the high FPS modes[/quote]
I suggest you read this thread: http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/1289-sony-slt-high-fps-mode/
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1314518898' post='11092']
While the results from the GH2 and A77 look even more useless than the others, its a stupid comparison anyway. They are comparing the standard JPEH output, as far as I understand. If one really cares about the best performance, one would convert RAW with the best RAW converter that does not filter/smudge noise away.
So, a bit silly, that comparison...
[/quote]
Well not that silly, IMHO. If the A77 output can get a bit better via good RAW processing, so can the other outputs of the other cameras... So while I certainly don´t take this little comparison as a definitive verdict of A77´s noise performance, it certainly has its meaning.
anyscreenamewilldo
Unregistered
nice to see some most useful pictures for checking the 77's rez + noise quality up on lenstip - exactly what i wanted to see - shot on a difficult grey day too - and looking good so far? yes, depends what your looking for too i suppose,
ta lenstip
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