[mst]

[quote name='Rover' timestamp='1318245206' post='12253']

Adorama has 'em for $700something. Waiting for the review...

[/quote]



They are not yet available over here.



-- Markus

[Rover]

[quote name='mst' timestamp='1318247666' post='12256']

They are not yet available over here.



-- Markus

[/quote]



No, not necessarily from you (although sometime down the line, I'm sure, you'll get to this lens, it's simply too tempting <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ).

[mst]

Note that a Nikon based review will probably not happen at photozone.



See [url="http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/789-recent-good-and-bad-experiences-with-manufacturer-service/page__view__findpost__p__12279"]here[/url].



-- Markus

[Martin_MM]

[quote name='mst' timestamp='1318351095' post='12280']

Note that a Nikon based review will probably not happen at photozone.



See [url="http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/789-recent-good-and-bad-experiences-with-manufacturer-service/page__view__findpost__p__12279"]here[/url].



-- Markus

[/quote]





Yes, I feel for you. Reading about this Tokina´s attitude, I simply got sick (as well as from the Tokina lens quality cotnrol).



Part of this applies to Canon according to my experience - back in the "old days" when the only affordable FF camera was EOS 5D, I wanted to go Canon. To my surprise, the 24-70/2.8L lens showed such a piece variability that I simply got scared away from Canon and went Nikon later (4 copies of Nikon 24-70 were practiacally the same - I was impressed). For Brightcolors: I know Canon has some great lenses for sure as well as I know about Nikon early mechanical issues with 24-70... still, my own tests persuaded me.



Personally I don´t dare to buy any more expensive third party lenses. Your tests and experience with all those Tokinas and Sigmas just confirmed what I had thought long before.

[Rover]

I will buy a good lens regardless of brand, but I'll probably go to the second hand market to avoid experience like yours... getting stuck with a faulty lens and the vendor pointing the blame at me or failing to do anything meaningful isn't high on my priority list. I'd rather get a lens that is proven working, with a discount to boot. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



It's a pity about the Tokinas, looks like their QC has gone downhill steeply. I only have positive things to say about the 12-24 I had.

[Martin_MM]

[quote name='Rover' timestamp='1318401178' post='12286']

I will buy a good lens regardless of brand, but I'll probably go to the second hand market to avoid experience like yours... getting stuck with a faulty lens and the vendor pointing the blame at me or failing to do anything meaningful isn't high on my priority list. I'd rather get a lens that is proven working, with a discount to boot. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



It's a pity about the Tokinas, looks like their QC has gone downhill steeply. I only have positive things to say about the 12-24 I had.

[/quote]



Look, besides what I have written I truly believe Tokina & Sigma can also have perfectly centered, sharp and reliable lenses which serve its owners for decades.... My attitude is all about statistics - the probability I get de-centered, unsharp & unreliable lens from TokSigma brands seem to me multiple higher than from certain genuine manufacturers... BTW, exactly the same applies to the smokers´ stupid argument of long-term life of certain heavy smokers ("you know, he used to smoke 90cigs/day and died as late as in his 95"). And that is all - nothing else behind. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Rover]

My comment wasn't meant to run counter to yours, nor do I wish to start a discussion. What I'm pointing out about being cautious when buying and using second hand market whenever possible really pertains to any manufacturer. My experience has been that every lens I owned from every brand - Minolta, KonicaMinolta, Sigma, Tokina, Canon - has performed to spec (some better in absolute terms, some naturally worse) with the single exception of Canon EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS USM, which is really a sad story better told elsewhere. However, I'm not claiming that my experience is statistically relevant.



It's a shame that Tokina and Sigma seem to be more affected than the other brands but I also remember Photozone had problems with 24-70 L, 70-200 VR, Nikkor 28/1.4 and some other lenses that should have been fine given the huge price. Also heard stories of a dud TS-E 17L on FM forums and I can only conclude that QC has gone way downhill with most manufacturers recently. Thankfully none of the lenses I bought for the last few years have been very new, and none were bought in a shop.

[Martin_MM]

[quote name='Rover' timestamp='1318412370' post='12292']

My comment wasn't meant to run counter to yours, nor do I wish to start a discussion. What I'm pointing out about being cautious when buying and using second hand market whenever possible really pertains to any manufacturer. My experience has been that every lens I owned from every brand - Minolta, KonicaMinolta, Sigma, Tokina, Canon - has performed to spec (some better in absolute terms, some naturally worse) with the single exception of Canon EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS USM, which is really a sad story better told elsewhere. However, I'm not claiming that my experience is statistically relevant.



It's a shame that Tokina and Sigma seem to be more affected than the other brands but I also remember Photozone had problems with 24-70 L, 70-200 VR, Nikkor 28/1.4 and some other lenses that should have been fine given the huge price. Also heard stories of a dud TS-E 17L on FM forums and I can only conclude that QC has gone way downhill with most manufacturers recently. Thankfully none of the lenses I bought for the last few years have been very new, and none were bought in a shop.

[/quote]





Oh, my statement wasn´t meant to be confrontational - I just wanted to more clarify my attitude, nothing else <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.