[zz7]

[quote name='wim' date='15 July 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1279207306' post='1024']

Hi Alex,



In that case, why not settle for fixed-focus lenses?



This really defeats the object of a lens with any focusing mechanism at all.



[/quote]





Honestly, I would gladly buy such a lends 'hardcoded' on infinity... e.g 21mm Zeiss. But doubt if that is on offer (by any manufacturer, not only Zeiss) <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



By the way, this is somehow related to the topic - Zeiss sells MF lenses for industry. They have very vague explanation in their web site about how e.g. ZF is different from ZF-I, but something about screws to fixate aperture/focus is mentioned:



http://www.zeiss.com/lenses4industry





Anyone has more info/experience on that?

[PuxaVida]

[quote name='wim' date='16 July 2010 - 05:15 PM' timestamp='1279289747' post='1048']

...



I don't know whether that is what you wanted to convey, as I don't completely understand your post well enough, I think, so I thought I added this remark.



Kind regards, Wim

[/quote]





Well then to be more precise... In some cases lack of AF is surely not a problem as long as you have the propor focus screen and the right lens with a decent MF ring. Furthermore, in some spesific cases I think MF outperforms the AF functionalities easily (MF vs. focus & reframe in AF). Rotate the ring and see the DoF and your choice of focus point in real time (not as quick as your eyes cannot catch).



Regards,



Serkan

[Guest]

[quote name='PuxaVida' date='16 July 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1279292631' post='1050']

Well then to be more precise... In some cases lack of AF is surely not a problem as long as you have the propor focus screen and the right lens with a decent MF ring. Furthermore, in some spesific cases I think MF outperforms the AF functionalities easily (MF vs. focus & reframe in AF). Rotate the ring and see the DoF and your choice of focus point in real time (not as quick as your eyes cannot catch).



Regards,



Serkan

[/quote]



Actually, I would second this. While I am not on any political side when it comes to AF vs MF, I would say that there are situations where manual focus is the best choice. For example, if you have a subject (such as a musician on a stage) and you want to decide instantly to focus on the instrument, the hand, the arm, the eyes etc. manual focus is probably faster. You've framed your shot, and all you have to do is choose your focus point and turn the ring. The limited number of AF points means that you are restricted to certain points in the frame, so this is not possible.



But of course, you can do this with any AF lens by switching to manual ... the main difference is, Zeiss/Voigtländer lenses have better mechanics so this operation is easier and more gratifying.

[wim]

Hi Serkan,

[quote name='PuxaVida' date='16 July 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1279292631' post='1050']

Well then to be more precise... In some cases lack of AF is surely not a problem as long as you have the propor focus screen and the right lens with a decent MF ring. [/quote]

Ok, thanks. Looks like I was sayign more or less what you are, then <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.

Furthermore, in some spesific cases I think MF outperforms the AF functionalities easily (MF vs. focus & reframe in AF). Rotate the ring and see the DoF and your choice of focus point in real time (not as quick as your eyes cannot catch).



Regards,



Serkan

I don't necessarily agree. I find that MF tends to be slower than AF plus final MF adjustment... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> And often that last one isn't necessary, as I choose a point to focus on, generally speaking, which takes reframing into account <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[wim]

[quote name='Pinhole' date='17 July 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1279325221' post='1054']

Actually, I would second this. While I am not on any political side when it comes to AF vs MF, I would say that there are situations where manual focus is the best choice. For example, if you have a subject (such as a musician on a stage) and you want to decide instantly to focus on the instrument, the hand, the arm, the eyes etc. manual focus is probably faster.[/quote]

Somehow I doubt that. I honesltly do think that AF plus final MF adjustment, if required, is faster than MF only. I do this a lot, and it means I overshoot much less and less often than with MF only.

You've framed your shot, and all you have to do is choose your focus point and turn the ring. The limited number of AF points means that you are restricted to certain points in the frame, so this is not possible.

I don't necessarily agree here either. In the past , before the advent of AF, we only had 1 real MF point, the split prism wedge in the middle of the screen. And to be very honest, it isn't more precise than whatever you could see. I also had a simple precision matte focusing screen, especially for macro work etc., but that was even slower to use, for MF. BTW, to this day, unless I use tracking mode, I only use a single AF point, the one in the centre.



I can still remember that my wife always was complaining for me to hurry up with taking a photograph, it took so darn long - that was purely because of MF. These days she never complains, but we never stop for very long anymore when I take a photograph, thanks to AF <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.

But of course, you can do this with any AF lens by switching to manual ... the main difference is, Zeiss/Voigtländer lenses have better mechanics so this operation is easier and more gratifying.

With FTM lenses you don't have to switch to MF, so that part is as easy, especially as I have dedicated my *-button to AF. Better mechanics, yes, for a purpose. AF lenses have to be less tight because the AF motor is not as powerful as our hands. However, if you use fast lenses and the right focusing screens, I dare say AF lenses are easily as easy to MF with as any other non-AF lens.

That you find it more satisfying is fine, and clearly important to you, but that is subjective..<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Kind regards, Wim

[Guest]

Wim Wrote

"That you find it more satisfying is fine, and clearly important to you, but that is subjective..<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />"



Talking of subjective though, I'm about to go to the other end of the scale and indulge myself in a German toy called "Das Subjektiv" - it's a kit of lo-fi lenses for SLRs featuring pinhole, acrylic lens, zone plate etc. Since I do 'modifications anyway, it'll be fun to see what it's like without having taped-on lens modifiers.



I'll post a kind of review and some samples if they're not painfully embarrassing. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Here's some info: http://www.subjektiv.de/index_en.php



regards,

Pinhole

[wim]

[quote name='Pinhole' date='19 July 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1279537408' post='1117']

Wim Wrote

"That you find it more satisfying is fine, and clearly important to you, but that is subjective..<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />"



Talking of subjective though, I'm about to go to the other end of the scale and indulge myself in a German toy called "Das Subjektiv" - it's a kit of lo-fi lenses for SLRs featuring pinhole, acrylic lens, zone plate etc. Since I do 'modifications anyway, it'll be fun to see what it's like without having taped-on lens modifiers.



I'll post a kind of review and some samples if they're not painfully embarrassing. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Here's some info: [url="http://www.subjektiv.de/index_en.php"]http://www.subjektiv.de/index_en.php[/url]



regards,

Pinhole

[/quote]

That's interesting, I am looking forward to hear about your findings.



Looking at the picture of the fresnel-type lens (the zone plate) made my eyes hurt, BTW. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim

[PuxaVida]

[quote name='wim' date='18 July 2010 - 01:22 AM' timestamp='1279405323' post='1078']



I can still remember that my wife always was complaining for me to hurry up with taking a photograph, it took so darn long - that was purely because of MF. These days she never complains, but we never stop for very long anymore when I take a photograph, thanks to AF <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



[/quote]



that's it... We forgot to mention the most important issue of photography: a wife awaiting ... This overcomes all other kriterias when it comes to MF vs. AF. Thanks god, mine is the one of a kind. Never complains about such kind of things. Furthermore, she understands my enthusiasm when I say "I love my MF Zeiss, more than everything" (not "everyone", that would be catastrophic of course)...



Regards,



Serkan

[PuxaVida]

Very interesting... I'd like to try one of those and also looking forward to your review.



OTOH, I believe that a lens is "objektiv" by definition, where the resulting photography is nothing but "subjektiv". So the naming of the product is a bit in contradiction with the related German words...



Regards,



Serkan

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='PuxaVida' date='22 July 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1279806641' post='1230']

that's it... We forgot to mention the most important issue of photography: a wife awaiting ... This overcomes all other kriterias when it comes to MF vs. AF. Thanks god, mine is the one of a kind. Never complains about such kind of things. Furthermore, she understands my enthusiasm when I say "I love my MF Zeiss, more than everything" (not "everyone", that would be catastrophic of course)...



Regards,



Serkan

[/quote]

Odd <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I love some photos I have made. I merely like some lenses, and sometimes love how they render a certain scene. But that then is again about the image, not about the lens anymore.



Do I love anyTHING? Maybe my current audio setup, haha. Men are weird. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />