[davidmanze]

Hi dudes,

Well according to Ricehigh's blog there is going to be a FF "Pentax mirrorless" DSLR (officially announced/discussed by their managers) and a mirrorless 645D and a new module for use with Pentax lenses for the Ricoh GRX. This means at least that Ricoh/Pentax have responded to one of my blogs (here) suggesting the module. Good news for those with all those expensive limiteds.However, no details of forthcoming OV DSLRs or mutterings about new autofocus systems! But its good news for those who have a line up of Pentax mount lenses and are wondering if they will ever see another Pentax DSLR.Also there is a very interesting article about the "tungsten low light AF" problem,it seems that it is infra-red that's causing the problem.How do you read the situation Klaus? vis a vis Pentax/Ricoh

Dave's clichés



By the way Happy Christmas to you all.

[Klaus]

[quote name='dave's clichés' timestamp='1324292634' post='13899']

Hi dudes,

Well according to Ricehigh's blog there is going to be a FF "Pentax mirrorless" DSLR (officially announced/discussed by their managers) and a mirrorless 645D and a new module for use with Pentax lenses for the Ricoh GRX. This means at least that Ricoh/Pentax have responded to one of my blogs (here) suggesting the module. Good news for those with all those expensive limiteds.However, no details of forthcoming OV DSLRs or mutterings about new autofocus systems! But its good news for those who have a line up of Pentax mount lenses and are wondering if they will ever see another Pentax DSLR.Also there is a very interesting article about the "tungsten low light AF" problem,it seems that it is infra-red that's causing the problem.How do you read the situation Klaus? vis a vis Pentax/Ricoh

Dave's clichés



By the way Happy Christmas to you all.

[/quote]



Well, I guess that Pentax is also seeing that the DSLR market is dying starting from the bottom end. I'm not sure though whether a mirrorless DSLR a la Sony A65/A77 is really a solution for this problem. Basically the Sony SLTs are only a transitional technology as well. As far as the GRX system is concerned - it has potential. I always felt the need for exchangeable sensor modules but they played it the odd way by offering lens-integrated modules. If they are moving away from lens-integration that would be a good development. Whether Pentax K is the way to go is a different story.

[davidmanze]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1324294902' post='13902']

Well, I guess that Pentax is also seeing that the DSLR market is dying starting from the bottom end. I'm not sure though whether a mirrorless DSLR a la Sony A65/A77 is really a solution for this problem. Basically the Sony SLTs are only a transitional technology as well. As far as the GRX system is concerned - it has potential. I always felt the need for exchangeable sensor modules but they played it the odd way by offering lens-integrated modules. If they are moving away from lens-integration that would be a good development. Whether Pentax K is the way to go is a different story.

[/quote]

[davidmanze]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1324294902' post='13902']

Well, I guess that Pentax is also seeing that the DSLR market is dying starting from the bottom end. I'm not sure though whether a mirrorless DSLR a la Sony A65/A77 is really a solution for this problem. Basically the Sony SLTs are only a transitional technology as well. As far as the GRX system is concerned - it has potential. I always felt the need for exchangeable sensor modules but they played it the odd way by offering lens-integrated modules. If they are moving away from lens-integration that would be a good development. Whether Pentax K is the way to go is a different story.

[/quote]

[davidmanze]

HI,

I think the problem is going to be one of "delay time" if they have only just started to talk of new models since the purchase of Pentax how long will it take to design and bring them to market? Look at delays with the 645D,luckily they had very little competition in that field,but APS/FF DSLRs are on the move monthly! Mirrorless technology is new to Pentax!



Dave's clichés

[popo]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1324294902' post='13902']

I'm not sure though whether a mirrorless DSLR a la Sony A65/A77 is really a solution for this problem.[/quote]

Only quickly skimming the blog, but the term "mirrorless" is thrown around a lot, not DSLR (or SLT). I get the impression it is a mirrorless camera they're talking about. I long thought there was a gap in the market there for something more modern than the Leica offerings.



More interestingly there is a suggestion in there Canon will finally be joining the mirrorless party, although I've not dug into it yet to see what was actually said.

[dave9t5]

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1324297999' post='13907']

Only quickly skimming the blog, but the term "mirrorless" is thrown around a lot, not DSLR (or SLT). I get the impression it is a mirrorless camera they're talking about. I long thought there was a gap in the market there for something more modern than the Leica offerings.



More interestingly there is a suggestion in there Canon will finally be joining the mirrorless party, although I've not dug into it yet to see what was actually said.

[/quote]



A mirrorless K-mount camera would have the same lens-mount register distance as a DSLR/SLR K-mount lens, so it would have more in common with the mirrorless Sony Alpha bodies (than the Sony E bodies). That is, both have an unnecessarily deep and empty space where the mirror used to be (whether it's filled with a pellicle mirror is moot). It's not as optimized or as flexible as a new mirrorless specifc mount.



That said, we are seeing that the short flange distance of the E mount is only an advantage for relatively moderate focal lengths. For the wider-angle lenses, performance improves alot with retrofocus designs which lengthens the effective mount distance. For telephoto lenses, the total length of the lens-to-sensor converges with increasing focal length.



So, and considering that Pentax already has the smallest SLR lenses in the market, a mirrorless K-mount system would still be pretty small. A K-x/K-m/K-r with the penta-mirror hump lopped off would still be pretty small. Even the old ME-Super film bodies were pretty small. A penta-less ME-Super sized digital body with the current DA Ltd pancakes would be a very attractive system.

[miro]

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1324312547' post='13918']

A mirrorless K-mount camera would have the same lens-mount register distance as a DSLR/SLR K-mount lens, so it would have more in common with the mirrorless Sony Alpha bodies (than the Sony E bodies). That is, both have an unnecessarily deep and empty space where the mirror used to be (whether it's filled with a pellicle mirror is moot). It's not as optimized or as flexible as a new mirrorless specifc mount.



That said, we are seeing that the short flange distance of the E mount is only an advantage for relatively moderate focal lengths. For the wider-angle lenses, performance improves alot with retrofocus designs which lengthens the effective mount distance. For telephoto lenses, the total length of the lens-to-sensor converges with increasing focal length.



So, and considering that Pentax already has the smallest SLR lenses in the market, a mirrorless K-mount system would still be pretty small. A K-x/K-m/K-r with the penta-mirror hump lopped off would still be pretty small. Even the old ME-Super film bodies were pretty small. A penta-less ME-Super sized digital body with the current DA Ltd pancakes would be a very attractive system.

[/quote]







PZers help…..I’ve got lost in latest development in mirrorles cameras.



Back in form days was simple.

If you need perfect WA and normal lenses up let say 130…140mm get Rangefinder – due to short flang distance ,no back mirror

If you need tele range - go for SLR.



And then arrives digital. Where I’m completely lost

- it seems the photo sites have problem if the light is coming from low angle. This no advantage in WA range

- Long telephoto demands high performance AF – all birds shooters in canon lnad considers 1d….1ds or at least 50d. I don’think that in next decay any mirroroleas can touch this theritory. Isn’t it?



My question to all PZe4rs is :

What are the advantages of shorter lens to sensor distance? /optical,mechanical,weight etc../

[popo]

[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1324312547' post='13918']

A mirrorless K-mount camera...[/quote]

Neither myself nor the blog as far as I can see claimed the mirrorless camera would be K-mount. Of course they have the same problem everyone else does regarding legacy glass when attempting to make a new system.



I'm not familiar with Pentax anyway, are the lenses you can currently buy new for it compatible with full frame? I know they don't have a full frame DSLR to use it on anyway...

[Klaus]

[quote name='miro' timestamp='1324314332' post='13919']

PZers help…..I’ve got lost in latest development in mirrorles cameras.



Back in form days was simple.

If you need perfect WA and normal lenses up let say 130…140mm get Rangefinder – due to short flang distance ,no back mirror

If you need tele range - go for SLR.



And then arrives digital. Where I’m completely lost

- it seems the photo sites have problem if the light is coming from low angle. This no advantage in WA range

- Long telephoto demands high performance AF – all birds shooters in canon lnad considers 1d….1ds or at least 50d. I don’think that in next decay any mirroroleas can touch this theritory. Isn’t it?



My question to all PZe4rs is :

What are the advantages of shorter lens to sensor distance? /optical,mechanical,weight etc../

[/quote]



The Nikon V1/J1 is faster (AF) than a 1D(s) or 50D already. The latest Panas are also extremely fast although the Nikons will have an edge regarding object tracking for sure.



See here :

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZHlfNbogw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xZHlfNbogw[/url]

Can you do that with a DSLR ?



Things do really get shorter and more light-weight but just don't expect wonders. As far as wide-angles are concerned - you must not use symmetrical designs such as the Zeiss Biogon or Voigtländer Heliars.



If you compare the Oly 7-14/4 (FT) vs the Pana 7-14/4 you can immediately spot the difference in size/weight for instance between a DSLR and a mirrorless lens of similar specs.