[JJ_SO]

Or perhaps the kitchen table they are filling the ice-cube molds 

 

I would not clean it with mild soapy water, the parts coming from the sensor would stick on the rubber. Also, It don't want to wait with sensor cleaning until the cushion dries. I bought this as a dry solution. It is one, it is working and 200% overpriced at minimum. And as for the corners, you're right. I don't know if I ever get particles away from the edge of the sensor, time will tell.

 

Maybe I should place a warning sign in the mirror box: "particles stay out!"

[Guest]

Or perhaps the kitchen table they are filling the ice-cube molds 

 

I would not clean it with mild soapy water, the parts coming from the sensor would stick on the rubber. Also, It don't want to wait with sensor cleaning until the cushion dries. I bought this as a dry solution. It is one, it is working and 200% overpriced at minimum. And as for the corners, you're right. I don't know if I ever get particles away from the edge of the sensor, time will tell.

 

Maybe I should place a warning sign in the mirror box: "particles stay out!"

 

I guess you could take a sharp razor blade and cut off one edge to make it rectangular so it can reach into the corners...

[JJ_SO]

I think, if the razor blade is not layered with Teflon, I would ruin the whole expensive thing.

 

And if I were in America, I would just get the cash back by threatening them a lawsuit.

 



 

Although it's sort of cheap illustration, it's a complete lie as it shows clearly something very different.

[Guest]

I think, if the razor blade is not layered with Teflon, I would ruin the whole expensive thing.

 

And if I were in America, I would just get the cash back by threatening them a lawsuit.

 



 

Although it's sort of cheap illustration, it's a complete lie as it shows clearly something very different.

 

yes, looks like the block is mounted upside down, which would be the better shape.

 

but anyway, looking at the rubber block, it's clear the edges are uneven. It probably is poured into ice cube makers on the kitchen table.  ;-)

[Brightcolours]

A friend of mine had a friend who used that sticky "silicone on a stick" it to clean his sensor. I told her I was sceptical about the material. Her friend "cleaned" her camera sensor with it too, leaving "greasy" smudges all over it and making the camera unusable. I advised her to get a wet cleaning swab system to get rid of the smudges and she did...

 

Needless to say I will not try it.

[JJ_SO]

If you're fine with the swabs, stick with them. This expensive stick doesn't make smears.

 

Yet. <_<

 

Who knows how long the dust-glueing effect without traces last? And for sure, it's not cleaning better than a swab.

 

On Amazon I found another kind of that system from Pentax, 20 € more. Insane. 

One can buy a lot swabs for 50€

[Guest]

If you're fine with the swabs, stick with them. This expensive stick doesn't make smears.

 

Yet. <_<

 

Who knows how long the dust-glueing effect without traces last? And for sure, it's not cleaning better than a swab.

 

On Amazon I found another kind of that system from Pentax, 20 € more. Insane. 

One can buy a lot swabs for 50€

 

I found a customer review on amazon for the Pentax, from which I quote here, because it seems very pertinent to the discussion:

 

"I work with polyurethane rubber mix quite frequently in moldmaking, and I suspect that the sticky rubber knob on the end of this plastic stick is nothing more than 10 cents worth of that material, plus ....



This cheap little stick removed several specs of dust from my camera, and then left two smears behind. You have to be extremely careful not to let the rubber sweep against the mirror or drag on the sensor, even very lightly."

 

So, it works, but don't smear it across the sensor, (or press too hard, I would think), otherwise it leaves behind residue.

This is very easy to test, take the rubber and use it on a clean mirror or glass. Check that you can leave a fingerprint behind on the mirror/glass.  Now, take the rubber and see under what conditions it leaves behind any marks on the mirror. 

 

It may also be important not to touch the rubber, leaving fingerprints/grease behind that you subsequently transfer to the sensor.

 

I still come back to the idea of cleaning the rubber with soapy water, which may get rid of the grease. I do know that this is the recommended way of reconditioning sticky rubber/silicone that is covered with dust and dirt so it lost its stickiness. Of course, not having seen the rubber in question here, I can't guarantee that this works.

[JJ_SO]

If the guy relaly works with polyurethane rubber in moldmaking, he also knows to get the part out of the mold, they use sometimes a spray of "separation aid" (in German "Trennmittel"). And this spray is oilbased and able to leave smears. It's a good thing, though, to point out, those sticks have to be used without force and not to me move elsewhere than only in rectangular direction to the sensor.


It's fair enough to point out the downsides, especially the costs of the raw material. But one should also consider, those parts are not to be made on a kitchen table with ice cube molds. I thought you were joking and took the joke as well.


The stick itself has a special geometry to hook into the cushion. There must be at least two molds or a very expensive two component mold for producing the stick with cushion in one go. Material costs only become relevant by injecting millions of parts, but in lower quantities the cost of the mold is determining the price of plastic part much more. Mold costs can easily be a couple of 1.000 € or even 10.000 and you need to sell a lot of this stuff to get the costs in. So, the temptation is getting earlier to the break even point by adding 200 or 300% to the manufacturing costs. There are zillions of examples doing it that way. Buy a car and buy the parts for it... then see what's cheaper.


But also swabs can be difficult to handle: Special sizes for different sensors (DX and FX) and if you leave the sensor's surface with the swab, it's easy to bring smears onto the sensor from oily particles around the sensor. Or even bring back dust or greasy particles which were already blown/brushed off the senor and stuck in the border area.


The idea of a training with a piece of glass is excellent. I could also try to snap the success?

Therefore first rule to me is: Only do it if it's dirty enough. Using wide open apertures and not shooting against the sky or an evenly lit surface, you'll have a hard time to detect speckles even if the sensor has some of them on it's surface. My cameras do have to be able to take bumps, humidity and dust without getting rid off one particle each time it managed to "attack" the surface of the cam. I'm not cleaning sensor after each walk I took when a lens was changed.

[Guest]

If the guy relly works with polyurethane rubber in moldmaking, he also knows to get the part out of the mold, they use sometimes a spray of "separation aid" (in German "Trennmittel"). And this spray is oilbased and able to leave smears. It's a god thing, though, to point out, those sticks have to be used without force and not to me move elsewhere than only in rectangular direction to the sensor.


It's fair enough to point out the downsides, especially the costs of the raw material. But one should also consider, those parts are not to be made on a kitchen table with ice cube molds. I thought you were joking and took the joke as well.


The stick itself has a special geometry to hook into the cushion. There must be at least two molds or a very expensive two component mold for producing the stick with cushion in one go. Material costs only become relevant by injecting millions of parts, but in lower quantities the cost of the mold is determining the price of plastic part much more. Mold costs can easily be a couple of 1.000 € or even 10.000 and you need to sell a lot of this stuff to get the costs in. So, the temptation is getting earlier to the break even point by adding 200 or 300% to the manufacturing costs. There are zillions of examples doing it that way. Buy a car and buy the parts for it... then see what's cheaper.


But also swabs can be difficult to handle: Special sizes for different sensors (DX and FX) and if you leave the sensor's surface with the swab, it's easy to bring smears onto the sensor from oily particles around the sensor. Or even bring back dust or greasy particles which were already blown/brushed off the senor and stuck in the border area.


The idea of a training with a piece of glass is excellent. I could also try to snap the success?

Therefore first rule to me is: Only do it if it's dirty enough. Using wide open apertures and not shooting against the sky or an evenly lit surface, you'll have a hard time to detect speckles even if the sensor has some of them on it's surface. My cameras do have to be able to take bumps, humidity and dust without getting rid off one particle each time it managed to "attack" the surface of the cam. I'm not cleaning sensor after each walk I took when a lens was changed.

 

"separation aid" (in German "Trennmittel")". Excellent point, that may be the reason that it streaks? This could or should be cleaned off?

 

"There must be at least two molds. " Yes, I am aware that such molds are quite expensive, so that you make a run for several thousand sticks, and those would not be made on a kitchen table. I think it's made of two parts, the stick/handle, and the rubber top. If my guess is right, the way the two are merged is by hanging the stick/handle into something that does look like ice-cube molds, and the rubber is poured into the molds and solidifies around the stick.  

Alternatively, since rubber is soft, if the rubber is made with the hole, the stick could just be pushed into the rubber, and pops into place.

It should be possible to source some type of stick from China, either already on offer, or from a factory that makes these sticks to specification, example http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/848600...esale.html

[JJ_SO]

photonius, on 15 Jan 2014 - 15:05, said:

"separation aid" (in German "Trennmittel")". Excellent point, that may be the reason that it streaks? This could or should be cleaned off?

Those first parts out of the mold will normally be thrown away. Especially if the parts are complicated. Later on, if production works regularly and all temperatures, times and pressures at the injection machine are set, that chemical is not needed, otherwise the mold design has a flaw.


Also, who says the smears are from the cushion - and not from the parts this person had between cushion and sensor? Try with a tiny piece of candle wax between your finger and a hard surface, then move your finger to the side instead of lift it away from the surface.

photonius, on 15 Jan 2014 - 15:05, said:

"There must be at least two molds. " Yes, I am aware that such molds are quite expensive, so that you make a run for several thousand sticks, and those would not be made on a kitchen table. I think it's made of two parts, the stick/handle, and the rubber top. If my guess is right, the way the two are merged is by hanging the stick/handle into something that does look like ice-cube molds, and the rubber is poured into the molds and solidifies around the stick.

Alternatively, since rubber is soft, if the rubber is made with the hole, the stick could just be pushed into the rubber, and pops into place.

No. The corners of the cushion can't be lifted of, so therefore it's either glued or injected in another process. That might be the reason of it's design, be pulled off the mold by hand or robot. Otherwise the points of the ejector pins would be visible.

photonius, on 15 Jan 2014 - 15:05, said:

It should be possible to source some type of stick from China, either already on offer, or from a factory that makes these sticks to specification, example http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/848600...esale.html

You can try, I have one and it works which is what counts at the end.