[joachim]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1284994553' post='2992']

AF with mFT lenses is quite fast, yes. But I think he was talking about mounting lenses with PD-AF logic via an adapter. The "SLR legacy" lenses.

[/quote]



Exactly. The beautiful Olympus 12-60 for FT is not really fast focusing on the present Pen range, as was widely discussed when the Pens were new.

[Klaus]

[quote name='joachim' timestamp='1285008231' post='3002']

Where is the digital body to go with my Contax lenses? In general most people needed a new WA and often existing designs where plagued by CA, which in the early days was an issue.

[/quote]



Well, I think it's valid to state that there were no issues with tele zoom lenses as well as primes.

As for Contax - shit happens - and it wasn't the first time.



It just makes less sense to use legacy lenses on micro-system cameras. That's a non-issue for new shoppers though and they will avoid DSLRs.

At the end it is about sales volume - the DSLR market may not be saturated but I think you don't need to upgrade with every new DSLR generation but you can skip one or two now.

[Klaus]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1285007314' post='2999']

Yes, for the part of the DSLR market that is the domain of the snap shooters the "micro-system" obviously is a good alternative. Not so for the more serious enthusiast and photographer, though. For them, "micro" makes less sense, as the lenses themselves will never be "micro".

[/quote]



They will be smaller, of course. Leica M lenses were always smaller than Leica R just to give you an obvious example.

Even long tele lenses can be a bit smaller albeit to a lesser degree of course.





[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1285007314' post='2999']

The SLR will be given "back" to the photographer, with obviously a bit a smaller market share.

[/quote]



A Panasonic G1/2 handles pretty much exactly like a DSLR. And what makes a micro-system user a "lesser" photographer ?

The result is/can be the same. There were many world-class photographers using a Leica M just to come up with this example again.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1285010186' post='3005']

They will be smaller, of course. Leica M lenses were always smaller than Leica R just to give you an obvious example.

Even long tele lenses can be a bit smaller albeit to a lesser degree of course.









A Panasonic G1/2 handles pretty much exactly like a DSLR. And what makes a micro-system user a "lesser" photographer ?

The result is/can be the same. There were many world-class photographers using a Leica M just to come up with this example again.

[/quote]

I did not say a "lesser photographer". BUt only photographers who choose a system for compactness and not for capabilities will go for a small camera over a DSLR with more capabilities lens wise.



So yes, in the big group of "photographers" (as opposed to snap shooters), there will always be a small group that goes for compact, because of what they photograph. Just like there always will be a small group within the big group of "photographers" who will go for big and exotic solutions.



In the time of the Leica M the camera capabilities were anyway VERY different from what they are now, so one can not make a direct comparison to those times.



Now, sure, street photography often can be done fine with a Leica M or other compact system. And there are also MANY fields of photography where such systems do NOT deliver in today's advanced photography.

[Guest]

Oh god, I hope that the cycles of redundancy are not going getting exponentially shorter. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I'm all for progress, but if we are going to have to throw our equipment in the trash every five years, I'll become a Luddite and go back to using my old Nikon F2.

[wim]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1285017878' post='3009']

Oh god, I hope that the cycles of redundancy are not going getting exponentially shorter. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I'm all for progress, but if we are going to have to throw our equipment in the trash every five years, I'll become a Luddite and go back to using my old Nikon F2.

[/quote]

Unfortunately, that is the way things seem to be going these days....



I am actually amazed they did run with it this long.



Kind regards, Wim

[joachim]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1285017878' post='3009']

Oh god, I hope that the cycles of redundancy are not going getting exponentially shorter. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I'm all for progress, but if we are going to have to throw our equipment in the trash every five years, I'll become a Luddite and go back to using my old Nikon F2.

[/quote]



One thing to consider, every time you changed roll in your F2, you had the chance to upgrade the sensor to the latest and greatest new emulsion.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your F2.

[joachim]

[quote name='wim' timestamp='1285020076' post='3012']



I am actually amazed they did run with it this long.



[/quote]



Sorry you lost me on this one. Could you elaborate?



I presently find it more amasing how quickly fortunes change in that business. With the success of the E-410 and E-510 one thought FT was quite healthy. Now it is not so clear any more. On the other hand, it might be a smart move, if the SLR is doomed. As I wrote earlier, not many people outside the companies knows how Nikon and Canon are going to handle mirror less. Depending on what these are doing we might see similar complaints here.

[wim]

Hi Joachim,

[quote name='joachim' timestamp='1285020788' post='3016']

Sorry you lost me on this one. Could you elaborate?[/quote]

I've always been amazed by and have admired the dogged perseverance of Olympus in this regard. It never really seemed to take off, basically because although the idea was good, the time wasn't right (yet). Right at the start of FT the sensor IQ wasn't really there yet, and certainly over here Olympus always got bad press in any photoshop I ever visited, and that's true till this day.

I presently find it more amasing how quickly fortunes change in that business. With the success of the E-410 and E-510 one thought FT was quite healthy.

I dont think they did all that well, certainly not over here. I see and saw lots of cameras on the streets, but when it comes to dslrs it always is APS-C or larger, with Nikon and Canon by far in the lead. And in the past five years I actually have never ever encountered anyone who actually owned an Olympus FT dslr, only Panasonic, and even that only once. I only ever saw Olympus at exhibitions and the like.

Now it is not so clear any more. On the other hand, it might be a smart move, if the SLR is doomed. As I wrote earlier, not many people outside the companies knows how Nikon and Canon are going to handle mirror less. Depending on what these are doing we might see similar complaints here.

For Olympus I do think dslr is doomed, and muFT is the way to go, as that has proved rather popular, although I wonder what will be happening now APS-C sized sensor versions from other brands are mushrooming everywhere currently.



With regard to Nikon, they actually filed a bunch of patents regarding a "mirrorless" camera with exchangeable lenses for a smaller than muFT sensor a while ago, Of course nobody but Nikon knows whether they will go ahead with that. As to Canon: they are more tightlipped than the Sphinx, so who knows what they are up to, apart from designing very large sensors. There was one interview, where they spoke of dslrs withotu optical VFs, but still with a mirror, but that was a few years ago. Of course, Sony has come up now with such a design, but I reckon many peopel will still find it too large and cumbersome.



I do expect there to be adapters for the "older" lenses, however, just like with muFT, so we can all continue to use our old lenses somehow. Considering the amount of lenses out there, Canon and Nikon will have ot take them into account, as I would think people would really revolt and go in other directions otherwise.



Hmmm. Maybe it is time to switch to Leica now after all <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. I honestly do wish a company like Canon would create an RF/mirrorless type camera, FF, which could also use their existing EF lens range. That would really be my ideal type of camera.



Kind regards, Wim

[joachim]

[quote name='wim' timestamp='1285022570' post='3018']

I dont think they did all that well, certainly not over here. I see and saw lots of cameras on the streets, but when it comes to dslrs it always is APS-C or larger, with Nikon and Canon by far in the lead. And in the past five years I actually have never ever encountered anyone who actually owned an Olympus FT dslr, only Panasonic, and even that only once. I only ever saw Olympus at exhibitions and the like.

[/quote]



Surprise surprise. I used to see lots of them in tourist spots.

With regard to Nikon, they actually filed a bunch of patents regarding a "mirrorless" camera with exchangeable lenses for a smaller than muFT sensor a while ago, Of course nobody but Nikon knows whether they will go ahead with that.

The problem with patents is, your competition also reads them and knows what you are up to. Patents typically get filed when the project is abandoned. In case someone else does it you can make them pay.

I do expect there to be adapters for the "older" lenses, however, just like with muFT, so we can all continue to use our old lenses somehow. Considering the amount of lenses out there, Canon and Nikon will have ot take them into account, as I would think people would really revolt and go in other directions otherwise.

Minolta MD and Canon FD

Hmmm. Maybe it is time to switch to Leica now after all <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. I honestly do wish a company like Canon would create an RF/mirrorless type camera, FF, which could also use their existing EF lens range. That would really be my ideal type of camera.

Have a look at the nice Leica, Marcus showed pictures from. I am sceptically about the present EF lenses on a mirror less at the default option. I would want a short register to be able to put glass closer to the sensor. Free up the lens designers. Just remember what Zeiss did for the Sony R1.