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Sony A7R IV announced ...
#11
Ah, so the haptic qualities have improved, and some of the ergonomics too. That will make quite a few people happy.
#12
Meanwhile on a parallel universe, 64MP sensor soon to become real, 108 MP sensors with 10X optical zoom coming next year
https://www.gsmarena.com/phones_with_108...-38157.php
Without a very serious advantage for everyday use
makers of cameras with big sensors are dead meat.
We all said Samsung were idiots for leaving camera business while they were very serious players, it seems they weren't that wrong.
#13
Tiny sensors do not compete with cameras, Toni. The nonsensical high res. sensors for phones are just that, nonsensical.

Samsung were idiots leaving the camera business when they finally developed a very advanced model, yes. One would understand that they would leave before that, but not when they had a hit on their hands.
#14
Big sensors are better and will always be, phone cameras are good enough for family shots and vacation pictures, 10 years ago you needed a DSLR if you wanted good quailty printable photos, now a phone can just do that while always taking advantage of its versatility and ease of carrying and use.
Manufacturers make most profit from entry level cameras, Canon sells tons of 4000D 1300D and 250D, EOS M is generating far more profit than EOS R
more and more people are finding their smartphone pictures good enough and abandoning the idea of buying a dedicated camera which impacts a lot camera sales.
The only safe niche from smartphones are high end cameras a smartphone might replace A6000 plus kit, bit not A7IV
that's why new cameras will be oriented to pros ready to invest in cameras making their prices not justified for people like me and you, I can't justify paying 3000$ to upgrade my camera
#15
(07-17-2019, 06:50 PM)Brightcolours Wrote: Tiny sensors do not compete with cameras, Toni. The nonsensical high res. sensors for phones are just that, nonsensical.

Samsung were idiots leaving the camera business when they finally developed a very advanced model, yes. One would understand that they would leave before that, but not when they had a hit on their hands.

I think they pulled the plug at the right time. The pro model simply had an unfortunate timing.
However, the business guys looked at the current sales figures and trending - and saw the inevitable.
There is just not enough volume for that many players and Samsung was one of the weakest.
If they had acquired Pentax years before - yes, maybe - but not as a lonely cowboy.

I agree that the megapixel madness in the smartphone world is just silly.
Not just for technical reasons but because it's completely irrelevant for the vast majority of customers.
I understand 4K here (aka 8.3mp) to a certain degree but beyond there's just the cropping argument - and the target audience does pretty much never do that.
Chief Editor - opticallimits.com

Doing all things Canon, MFT, Sony and Fuji
#16
(07-17-2019, 11:21 PM)Klaus Wrote: I agree that the megapixel madness in the smartphone world is just silly.
Not just for technical reasons but because it's completely irrelevant for the vast majority of customers.
   
 Talk of high Mps telephone sensors as being some sort of technological reference is just about as nonsensical as reality can get ..... (it even surpasses my nonsensical reality) 
 __________________________________________________________________

  That aside, I just wanted to comment on the refresh rate of the A9 which is 120 Fps ....... as I write that's about as fast as it gets right now, the question is, ...... is that fast enough?

 ....... the answer is that for certain situations ...... No, it isn't enough! ...... 

  ....... the situation is when using long telephoto lenses  ...... as the FL length increases the delay between the EVF and the actual shot becomes more significant, in terms of the difference seen in the EVF and the final image, such as a flying bird seen in the EFV as on the left flying into the right hand side of the frame ....... where as the reviewed image has the bird almost butting it's beak against the right hand of the frame and empty space on the left.
 
  Of course there are not so many shooting at extreme focal lengths ..... but the A9/600mm F4/ TC 1.4/ TC 2.0 are all there ready to use in combination, so those trying to shoot at 1,200mm are going to run into instances where this will be a problem!

   Shutter lag: 

Canon 1DX II   ... 0.085 secs.
Nikon D5          ... 0.132 secs
Sony A9           ... 0.231 secs.
  
 Effectively, the Canon has already taken 2 images in the time when the Sony is spooling up to take the first.
 
   So, for the folk shooting general scenes / portraits / action at non extreme FLs, none of this applies ........ however, with the appearance of the great new Sony 600mm F4 and those wanting to use a 2X TC on the A9 ......... could well be straw that keeps the sports DSLR still in the game for a few more years!

It looks like a new generation of EVF displays with 240 FPS refresh rate will be required to overcome it as there are none available at this present time.

    It's only since the launch of the Sony 600mm F4 that users have had the opportunity of shooting at 1,200mm that this effect has come to light.

   So, Sony shows the way but there is still some way to go!
Dave's clichés
#17
(07-19-2019, 09:01 AM)davidmanze Wrote:  Talk of high Mps telephone sensors as being some sort of technological reference is just about as nonsensical as reality can get ..... (it even surpasses my nonsensical reality) 
 __________________________________________________________________

 ....
   Shutter lag: 

Canon 1DX II   ... 0.085 secs.
Nikon D5          ... 0.132 secs
Sony A9           ... 0.231 secs.
  
 Effectively, the Canon has already taken 2 images in the time when the Sony is spooling up to take the first.

...
It looks like a new generation of EVF displays with 240 FPS refresh rate will be required to overcome it as there are none available at this present time.

    It's only since the launch of the Sony 600mm F4 that users have had the opportunity of shooting at 1,200mm that this effect has come to light.

   So, Sony shows the way but there is still some way to go!

Apparently dave found the underscore key. Must be in the region of the dot key. If you can keep a secret: You can draw lines without wearing out your precious keys by just hit the ¶ button in the edit window - just tell no one...




Could go on for ages... and still being faster than dave massaging hammering the dot-key.


Okay, now to the desperate search for "there must be a reason to stick with DSLR, damn it!"

Now, as for the shutter lag times. You measured them yourself? I like fake news just as much as everybody, but some tiny voice in me screams "source? evidence?".

And all cameras were equipped with a 600 mm + 2× converter, right?

And all cameras could track the bloody bird through the whole frame, yes? At 20 fps? Without any focus issues, right? And with continuous AF? And without any fine-adjustments of the lens and of the lens + TC combination?

If there was this big difference in shutter lag, how could Mark Smith get his great bird shots with the α9 - or in other words, if you already bang a series of 30-40 shots away, who cares to start two frames earlier and still bring home more shots in focus? I just wonder why he never mentioned "this shutter lag keeps on getting in my way constantly, it's so annoying" - I don't think he would have bought the α9 if that "issue" was a dealbreaker.

Out of interest: are the times for shutter lag just measured the way "time between shutter button commanded to AF, measure exposure, calculate and set  parameters, release shutter" or is it "time for shutter to open when object is already in focus"?
#18
Shutter lag is not a big deal with high FPS spray and pray kinda tactics, but impacts single frame shooting more. Higher shutter lag can indeed get in the way.
I believe that imaging resource does measure shutter lag, but shutter lag does vary with settings and lenses.
#19
Nothing desperate here JoJu !!


Good science is based on on good observation ..... not brand loyalty.

Just observations on the A9's performance with long FL lenses !!






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7pElrHGajE 10 minutes in !!
Dave's clichés
#20
Blurb aside, my question was why Mark Smith doesn't tell us anything negative about shutter lag?

My next question will be which are your personal experiences with that Sony? Why should we care about shutter lag with exotically long FL? And which DSLR will focus accurately at 1200/8? Who cares about small shutter lag if the picture is out of focus? How often did you shoot with 1200/8? Or more likely with 1200/12.6 because that's what your current Tamron delivers.

Why should we care about 120 Hz refresh rate, if it remains uncertain what the refresh rate has to do with shutter lag?

What, besides another typical YouTube "issue", is the real world significance?
  


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