[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1295009704' post='5494']

At some stage (effective) blur (and decentering) gets just amplified in terms of pixel spread (not according to the same print size).

If I've a blur spread of 2px @ 12mp it gets multiplied to some degree. Where's the point ? Digicams have long departed from a point where an image is really pixel sharp.

[/quote]

Digicams meaning compact digital cameras? Of course they are not pixel sharp at 12mp at tiny sensor formats... wide open they already feel diffraction softening big time.



But that is not the case with APS-C, now is it? Sure, at f14 we won't see a big difference in print between a 10mp APS-C sensor image and a 24mp APS-C sensor image. But the 24mp sensor is not limiting anything there either. At f2.8, or f4, or f5.6, that is then where one still can take advantage of higher resolution.

[wojtt]

Fortunately, newer sensors add not only more pixels but also imporove on the S/N ratio allowing for an improved dynamic range, so it doesn't have to be a trade off here. More stress on the lenses border/corner as Klaus pointed out, but overall it's (I guess) what we call progess <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> It seems to me high ISO quality is pretty good today with usable ISO at 1600 in most cases, I just trust Sony (or any other chip maker) will not compromise here too much <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Anyways, isn't it a bit too early to discuss the Sony 24Mpix that is not out there yet <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ?

[Klaus]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1295011322' post='5496']

Digicams meaning compact digital cameras? Of course they are not pixel sharp at 12mp at tiny sensor formats... wide open they already feel diffraction softening big time.



But that is not the case with APS-C, now is it? Sure, at f14 we won't see a big difference in print between a 10mp APS-C sensor image and a 24mp APS-C sensor image. But the 24mp sensor is not limiting anything there either. At f2.8, or f4, or f5.6, that is then where one still can take advantage of higher resolution.

[/quote]



For the dead center this is true. Starting mid-frame this is a very diminishing return on investment.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Klaus' timestamp='1295013673' post='5500']

For the dead center this is true. Starting mid-frame this is a very diminishing return on investment.

[/quote]

Don't bet on it, you can for instance see how things work "differently" when you put tests of lenses tested by you on the 8mp 350D and the 15mp 50D next to eachother. Where the 350D will show a weak performance of a lens, the 50D will show a similar weak performance of the same lens... however with a higher line width per image height score than the 350D test showed.



A similar trend will be seen with a 24mp camera compared to the 50D, it is not just lens + settings that get excellent results will only benefit of higher sensor resolution.



As example the Canon 50mm f1.4 USM:

EOS 350D:



EOS 50D:





Other example (Canon EF-S 17-85 IS):

EOS 350D:



EOS 50D:

[finaldesignrb]

In agreement with Klaus, it is indeed quite difficult to get single-pixel features on my 14 megapixel APS-C sensor format Nex. Yes it does happen, but it's not something I can count on unless I am either taking super-fast electronic flash photos, or pictures of non-moving objects, and of course it better be at F11 or larger aperture--and probably the camera should be on a tripod. I question what more I would get out of a 28 megapixel sensor, resolution-wise, on APS-C.



But all my photos would benefit from having higher ISO's available, i.e. from a lower noise sensor, no question.



It is interesting nonetheless to speculate that we'll end up with less noise and more quality, in the end, if we have a super-high-megapixel sensor, and get rid of the AA filter, and have the individual noise pixels be smaller and/or do downsampling of the high res masters.

[genotypewriter]

[quote name='RussellB' timestamp='1295046427' post='5516']

In agreement with Klaus, it is indeed quite difficult to get single-pixel features on my 14 megapixel APS-C sensor format Nex. Yes it does happen, but it's not something I can count on unless I am either taking super-fast electronic flash photos, or pictures of non-moving objects,[/quote]

Klaus is talking about the uselessness of high MPs because of typical lens errors, from [url="http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/613-sony-24-mp-aps-c-sensor-coming/page__view__findpost__p__5468"]what I gather[/url].





[quote name='RussellB' timestamp='1295046427' post='5516']

and of course it better be at F11 or larger aperture--and probably the camera should be on a tripod. I question what more I would get out of a 28 megapixel sensor, resolution-wise, on APS-C.



But all my photos would benefit from having higher ISO's available, i.e. from a lower noise sensor, no question.

[/quote]

I don't think we can put the extra MPs to good use without doing something extra from our side... like when a manufacturer makes a car have a higher top speed, you still need to find a road for it <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> But to me it sounds like most of your problems can be solved by resizing your images down, if you don't really need the full image dimensions for some reason.



You'll ask what is the point of a low res image when you have a 14MP sensor but blaming the camera here is like blaming that sports car when there's traffic on the road <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> At times when you have your flash/tripod, you can put the extra sensor-resolution to better use.



GTW