Forums > Back > Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS vs Other APS-C W/A lens

07-31-2013, 09:27 PM

Hi,

I am a photographer who uses Nikons Fullframe many years. But I also had experience with APS-C Nikons (D50 and D200). Now recently bought a Sony NEX-6 and I am enjoying it. I intend to purchase a wide angle lens like the 10-18mm f4 OSS (E mount).

I Compared the results of this lens in 10mm with the results of several Wide Angle lenses tested by PhotoZone. The comparisons included lens like Nikon 12-24mm, Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8, Nikon 16-35mm f/4, Canon 10-22mm, Canon 16-35mm f/2.8, Sigma 12-24mm and Sony 11-18mm. All tests were compared with cameras APS-C or equivalent and resolution MTF measurements.

I expected that a relatively inexpensive lens like 10-18mm OSS (compared to other Wide Angles) had much lower performance, because it is a lens for camera mirrorles (NEX-6). I was surprised to see that the MTF values at f/4 and f/5.6 were very good and in many cases even better than WA lenses on APS-C DSLRs with much higher value ($$).

Here is examples:
Sony
OSS 10-18mm f/4 E at 10mm f/5.6 Center=3521 and Border=2700 (MTF on NEX-7)
Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 at 11mm f/5.6 Center=2299 and Border=1631

Nikon VR 16-35mm f/4 at 16mm f/5.6 Center=2750 and Border=2452 (MTF on D7000)

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 at 10mm
f/5.6 Center=2445 and Border=2248 (MTF on 50D)

I know that many factors influence the quality of a lens, but should probably sharpness be the one that has a great importance. So, can I compare the quality of the lens for this parameter (MTF Resolution) to know if I will buy a sharp lens ?

dave9t5 · 07-31-2013, 10:09 PM

Go back to the top of this page:

http://www.opticallimits.com/all-tests

or this one:

http://www.opticallimits.com/Reviews

Read the first remark:

Please note that the tests results are not comparable across the different systems! This does also apply for the new EOS tests based on the EOS 50D because of differences in the sensor system (e.g. AA-filter) as well as different RAW-converters.

Then you will know. Smile

Quote:Hi,

I am a photographer who uses Nikons Fullframe many years. But I also had experience with APS-C Nikons (D50 and D200). Now recently bought a Sony NEX-6 and I am enjoying it. I intend to purchase a wide angle lens like the 10-18mm f4 OSS (E mount).

I Compared the results of this lens in 10mm with the results of several Wide Angle lenses tested by PhotoZone. The comparisons included lens like Nikon 12-24mm, Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8, Nikon 16-35mm f/4, Canon 10-22mm, Canon 16-35mm f/2.8, Sigma 12-24mm and Sony 11-18mm. All tests were compared with cameras APS-C or equivalent and resolution MTF measurements.

I expected that a relatively inexpensive lens like 10-18mm OSS (compared to other Wide Angles) had much lower performance, because it is a lens for camera mirrorles (NEX-6). I was surprised to see that the MTF values at f/4 and f/5.6 were very good and in many cases even better than WA lenses on APS-C DSLRs with much higher value ($$).

Here is examples:
Sony OSS 10-18mm f/4 E       at 10mm f/5.6 Center=3521 and Border=2700 (MTF on NEX-7)

Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6   at 11mm f/5.6 Center=2299 and Border=1631

Nikon VR 16-35mm f/4         at 16mm f/5.6 Center=2750 and Border=2452 (MTF on D7000)

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 at 10mm f/5.6 Center=2445 and Border=2248 (MTF on 50D)

I know that many factors influence the quality of a lens, but should probably sharpness be the one that has a great importance. So, can I compare the quality of the lens for this parameter (MTF Resolution) to know if I will buy a sharp lens ?

Brightcolours · 08-01-2013, 07:41 AM

Quote:Hi,

I am a photographer who uses Nikons Fullframe many years. But I also had experience with APS-C Nikons (D50 and D200). Now recently bought a Sony NEX-6 and I am enjoying it. I intend to purchase a wide angle lens like the 10-18mm f4 OSS (E mount).

I Compared the results of this lens in 10mm with the results of several Wide Angle lenses tested by PhotoZone. The comparisons included lens like Nikon 12-24mm, Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8, Nikon 16-35mm f/4, Canon 10-22mm, Canon 16-35mm f/2.8, Sigma 12-24mm and Sony 11-18mm. All tests were compared with cameras APS-C or equivalent and resolution MTF measurements.

I expected that a relatively inexpensive lens like 10-18mm OSS (compared to other Wide Angles) had much lower performance, because it is a lens for camera mirrorles (NEX-6). I was surprised to see that the MTF values at f/4 and f/5.6 were very good and in many cases even better than WA lenses on APS-C DSLRs with much higher value ($$).

Here is examples:
Sony
OSS 10-18mm f/4 E at 10mm f/5.6 Center=3521 and Border=2700 (MTF on NEX-7)
Sony DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 at 11mm f/5.6 Center=2299 and Border=1631

Nikon VR 16-35mm f/4 at 16mm f/5.6 Center=2750 and Border=2452 (MTF on D7000)

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 at 10mm
f/5.6 Center=2445 and Border=2248 (MTF on 50D)

You can not compare the numbers like that (well, you obviously can, but not in any meaningful manner Wink

). The numbers are related to the vertical resolution of the cameras the test was performed on. Since the vertical resolution on used cameras differs a lot, the numbers lose their meaning when compared to other cameras. 

Instead, just look at the bar heights in the graphs, without looking at any numbers. Or look at the "excellent, good" and so on legenda.

Quote:I know that many factors influence the quality of a lens, but should probably sharpness be the one that has a great importance. So, can I compare the quality of the lens for this parameter (MTF Resolution) to know if I will buy a sharp lens ?

No, not when you compare tests on different camera bodies. Like I said above, only look at the bar heights (without looking at the numbers). This will give a crude idea of how lenses compare.

marco · 08-01-2013, 10:49 AM

But if you cannot compare the numbers why is there a optical rating? ;-) Kahneman, D. (2011) Thinking, Fast and Slow show very well how problematic ratings are. For example the ratings are worse if the early ratings are bad and the other way around. So don't trust ratings.

In my opinion the best way to compare lenses is to look at many pictures. You get a much better feeling what is possible with a lens and what not. For example I really like the Sony SEL 50/1.8 more than the 85/1.4 ZA for portraits. The bokeh looks simply good.

**mst** · 08-01-2013, 11:54 AM

There is no one stop approach to judge a lens Smile

Some prefer technical analysis, some prefer field reports. The good news is that there are many review sites nowadays to give you a mostly complete picture.

Yes, ratings are a bit problematic. For another reason, though: they simplify things too much IMO. People tend to stop reading the (not that long really) review texts and look at the star ratings only. Best indicator is the often requested list of "Highly recommended" lenses.

Back in the early days of photozone, there were no ratings, but people urged us (or Klaus at that time) to add them. Now that we have them, we are criticized again Wink

-- Markus

marco · (This post was last modified: 08-01-2013, 04:55 PM by marco.)

Remove them and you will be slammed again. ;-)

I think there are to many variables like price, sharpness, bokeh, build, size, AF etc.. for really helping ratings. So people should be careful and invest some time to read the reviews. In my opinion for most people kit lenses are good enough. Many tell me they care more about colors, contrast(which means for them DR too) than sharpness.

Brightcolours · 08-01-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:Remove them and you will be slammed again. ;-)

I think there are to many variables like price, sharpness, bokeh, build, size, AF etc.. for really helping ratings. So people should be careful and invest some time to read the reviews. In my opinion for most people kit lenses are good enough. Many tell me they care more about colors, contrast(which means for them DR too) than sharpness.

Contrast and DR are opposites.

08-01-2013, 06:38 PM

All lenses that I bought in the last few years I checked the opinion of the editors here at PhotoZone. This site is always a reference to me and I always nominate him to my friends. I also always view several examples of photos with camera + lens that I want to buy in www.pbase.com and www.pixel-peeper.com before to go at shopping. Regarding this lens SEL1018 in particular, I also made several comparisons on www.dxomark.com with Wide Angles in Mirrorless system, APS-C and fullframe.

There are many variables to consider, I KNOW, and sharpness is just one of them. But even comparing different platforms I found good values of sharpness and overall average for the 10-18mm OSS. Obviously this lens should have (and had some) lower values compared to distortions such as Barrel, Vignetting, color rendition and chromatic aberrations. But still, It was not so far behind in these comparisons. When I have this lens in my hands I will make a comparison in the real world vs a Sony Alpha with similar characteristics (APS-C using GA lens) and I'll post pictures here. If the numbers can not be compared between different systems, perhaps the images could reveal the difference in quality between Wide Angle Lens with different systems.

I just want to remember that, although they are completely different systems, nothing forbid us to compare results of sharpness, color saturation and noise in tests conducted by www.dpreview.com between mirrorless cameras versus APS-C versus FullFrames. And it seems completely absurd, but I compared the same image of NEX7 (sony DT 1.8/50mm f / 8) vs Nikon DX3 (f/11 85mm 1.8G) vs Sony SLT-A77 (1.8SAM 50mm f / 8) vs Canon 60D (50mm f/1.4 lens at f / 8) at ISO 800, 1600 and 3200 (all in RAW mode). They are different systems with different lenses, but the final quality is quite next with the advantage of each one in some criterion or other, and with disadvantage in other respects. For us who are photographers concerned about technical items, every detail is important, but for people who are not photographers, only what matters is the quality of the image that a system can deliver.

And sometimes, combinations of lenses and cheaper cameras can surprise delivering image quality better than some more expensive systems. I always thought that ZEISS lenses were the best on the market, but I saw several examples of less expensive lenses are superior to them. When I had made my own tests I will provide the results here and share my conclusion.

Thanks for all your opinions.

08-01-2013, 07:30 PM

Here is am visual example comparating same image with diferent systems:

This Image was provided by image comparate tool from www.dpreview.com

08-01-2013, 07:33 PM

How Can I upload a JPEG or PNG image to this topic ?

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