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Close-ups with wide angle lenses
#11
This is a cool thread. Keeping it alive.



Pentax K24/2.8 (135 film):

[Image: p712362208-5.jpg]



Pentax DA14/2.8(APS-C):

[Image: p634980574-5.jpg]

[Image: p626566792-5.jpg]

[Image: p909747360-5.jpg]

[Image: p463403288-5.jpg]
#12
I agree it is cool! My first attempt at close ups with a WA, in this case a 35mm f2 Nikkor on my D700! I frankly think the 35mm is doing a relatively good job of creating bouquet, both in front and behind.







[url="http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/gallery/album/80-wa-close-ups/"]WA close ups[/url]
#13
It is bokeh, not bouquet... not sure how to write it phonetically for french, bit the bo part is like "beau".... the keh part kind of like "les". Bokeh comes from a Japanese word "Boke".



I disagree on the relative good job on the bokeh for that particular lens though,.. not very smooth (the background blur), not even for a 35mm lens. Nice colours in your garden, though.



By the way, bokeh is used to describe or express the quality of the blurred parts, the "rendering". Not the amount of blur.
#14
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1313013566' post='10600']

It is bokeh, not bouquet... not sure how to write it phonetically for french, bit the bo part is like "beau".... the keh part kind of like "les". Bokeh comes from a Japanese word "Boke".



I disagree on the relative good job on the bokeh for that particular lens though,.. not very smooth (the background blur), not even for a 35mm lens. Nice colours in your garden, though.



By the way, bokeh is used to describe or express the quality of the blurred parts, the "rendering". Not the amount of blur.

[/quote]



If you're going to be pedantic, it's actually boke; a standard Romanization of the Japanese word. Bokeh is just an alternative and somewhat Americanized Romanization of it.



The French bouquet seems a perfectly reasonable alternative Romanization and seems to be a very close match to the pronounciation to the the Japanese boke.



Compare pronounciations (click "Listen"):

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#ja|en|%E6%9A%88%E3%81%91"]boke - Japanese[/url]

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#fr|en|bouquet"]bouquet - français[/url]

Quite similar.



As for the meaning of boke, it simply means "blurred" or "out-of-focus". On it's own, it has no meaning about the quality (nor the amount of blur).
#15
[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1313024108' post='10601']

If you're going to be pedantic, it's actually boke; a standard Romanization of the Japanese word. Bokeh is just an alternative and somewhat Americanized Romanization of it.



The French bouquet seems a perfectly reasonable alternative Romanization and seems to be a very close match to the pronounciation to the the Japanese boke.



Compare pronounciations (click "Listen"):

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#ja%7Cen%7C%E6%9A%88%E3%81%91"]boke - Japanese[/url]

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#fr%7Cen%7Cbouquet"]bouquet - français[/url]

Quite similar.



As for the meaning of boke, it simply means "blurred" or "out-of-focus". On it's own, it has no meaning about the quality (nor the amount of blur).

[/quote]



This discussion is very tempting but I will try to stay away from it this time <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />... The bokeh-centric discussions always include a variety of information each and every time, but concerning linguistic approaches for the "meaning" of it, I have to say that they're like grenades...
#16
[quote name='dave9t5' timestamp='1313024108' post='10601']

If you're going to be pedantic, it's actually boke; a standard Romanization of the Japanese word. Bokeh is just an alternative and somewhat Americanized Romanization of it.



The French bouquet seems a perfectly reasonable alternative Romanization and seems to be a very close match to the pronounciation to the the Japanese boke.



Compare pronounciations (click "Listen"):

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#ja|en|%E6%9A%88%E3%81%91"]boke - Japanese[/url]

[url="http://translate.google.com/?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=&sl=zh-CN&tl=en#fr|en|bouquet"]bouquet - français[/url]

Quite similar.



As for the meaning of boke, it simply means "blurred" or "out-of-focus". On it's own, it has no meaning about the quality (nor the amount of blur).

[/quote]

First of all, we are not just using a term from Japanese just because the use of it comes from Japan... We use it because in 1997 it was introduced by 3 Americans in the the "Photo techniques" publication.

They decided to add an H to the end to get people to pronounce it correctly, "bo" as in bone and "ke" as in Kenneth.

As the guy who introduced the word explains:

"I'd been troubled by the widespread punning on the CompuServe Photography Forum, where posters kept assuming that it rhymed with "toke" or "bloke." I figured the H at the end would help our readers pronounce it more accurately."



So, it is "bokeh" and not "boke". Not a Japanese word anymore, but a term in photography now which borrows its origins from Japanese.



Now about the use of the word. As I stated (correctly), bokeh is used to describe the QUALITY of the blur, not the QUANTITY.

The originator of the word (Mike Johnson) points to this link for the best description of "bokeh":

http://toothwalker.org/optics/bokeh.html

"The rendering of out-of-focus (OOF) image parts", "Owing to the subjective implications of some unquantifiable aesthetic value, it would be more appropriate to speak of pleasant or unpleasant bokeh, respectively."



Or as Mike Johnson wrote himself:

"Bokeh, regardless of what you may have

read on the web, merely refers to the subjective visual quality of the

way lenses render out-of-depth-of-field objects in pictures."



As I said, it is about the quality of the OOF parts, not the quantity.



Two articles from the man responsible that we use the term "bokeh" now, this one describing its 1997 origin:

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.co...it-is.html

And this one where he rates the bokeh of a number of lenses:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com...kings5.pdf
#17
BC I agree with you, the pronounication is not quite like "bouquet", more like "boquet", but really, ..... does anyone really care? I think everybody understood what I wanted to say. Now as to the quality of the "bokeh", I also agree that it is not necessarily the "best" bokeh, but the lens is able to very accurately delimit the sharp and less sharp zones, something that I had not necessarily expected. Like most of the remarks on this forum, mine is somewhat subjective, but..... live and let live <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />
#18
[quote name='Vieux loup' timestamp='1313055812' post='10619']

BC I agree with you, the pronounication is not quite like "bouquet", more like "boquet", but really, ..... does anyone really care? I think everybody understood what I wanted to say. Now as to the quality of the "bokeh", I also agree that it is not necessarily the "best" bokeh, but the lens is able to very accurately delimit the sharp and less sharp zones, something that I had not necessarily expected. Like most of the remarks on this forum, mine is somewhat subjective, but..... live and let live <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />

[/quote]

Its a nice lens regardless, nicer than technical reviews show. I really like its Canon counterpart too, although I am using it on APS-C <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />.



Are all of those flowers from your garden?
#19
[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1313056187' post='10620']

Its a nice lens regardless, nicer than technical reviews show. I really like its Canon counterpart too, although I am using it on APS-C <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />.



Are all of those flowers from your garden?

[/quote]





Yes all are from my garden. This part of France is very fertile and everything grows quite well.
#20
Late yesterday evening (finally a few days of summer-like weather ahead):



[Image: downer.jpg]



EX 20/1.8 on D3x. Horizon distortion coming from the landscape, not the lens <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />



-- Markus
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