Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
I need help with deciding which lens for Canon 5D mark II
#1
Hi. I'm new at this forum. I'm currently looking for my first DSLR, I've pretty decided on going with the Canon 5D mark II. Yet, due to budget restraints, I'm kind of beating myself over what lens to get with it. Let me give you a run-down of my style of photography / needs / thoughts / and budget - to give you a better idea of how you might be able to help me. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />



So...



I am a visual artist. I have a BA at an art and design school. For years I have been working with a film medium format Mamiya 6 camera (6x6) with Mamiya 50mm lens which produces beautiful super sharp images. I also have a medium format Holga which I really love because of it's low-quality build which results in really interesting, unpredictable trashy interferences, mistakes and light leaks which produce some great and unique "bad" looks that no Photoshop artist could ever think up. So in that sense, my work ranges on a pretty wide scale of: from super sharp, ultra-detailed and controlled images and way down to bad, trashy, but unique and interesting images.



The majority of my work is portraits - either full body, or from the waist up. Sometimes I crop the image to get just a head-shot portrait. Other images could be a house, a garden, an interior of a room - no vast landscapes and no extra close shots. 95% of my work is done in a rather controlled environment, meaning I can more or less take my time, take light readings, work with my subject and usually I can re-shoot several times if necessary. My style is not so much a "capture the moment" kind of thing where you impulsively whip out the camera and shoot something before it goes away 2 seconds later. Yet, I do feel that I am at a point where I would like to be a bit more spontaneous and cut down preparation time before shooting, while still preserving my original style.

I use only available light and sometimes a camera-mounted flash for some shadow fills. In fact, I kind of like over-doing the flash just a bit giving it a kind of obvious (sometimes even harsh) presence.

I normally like to work hand-held. I like to move around and get into a rhythm when I shoot (when using tripod, I naturally find it more difficult to do that). Also the people I photograph are not professional models so I try to keep things as easy-going, quick and simple as possible. Sometimes the setting up of a tripod for each shot just bogs up the situation. I've tried using a mono-pod, but didn't like it much either (maybe I should try again).

The final product of my images is either a Lambda print or very high quality ink-jet prints which are done by a specialist using a high-end printer and special paper. The sizes of the prints differ from 40x40 cm to 120x120 cm.



My reasons for wanting to get a digital SLR are (not in any particular order):

1. An option for quicker work as opposed to my Mamiya

2. The option to immediately see the image I shot. I work somewhat intuitively (as opposed to technically) and seeing the image could be really helpful for making small adjustments.

3. I think that today is an era for digital images and I being one who has only worked with negatives and chemicals - I am very curious to dive into the digital realm.

4. I work a bit with video as well and I like the idea that the Canon 5d mII has the HD video aspect built-in.

5. It's becoming harder and harder to find high quality labs that work with film and prices for film, development, contacts and high-end scans are climbing. I am pretty sure that in the long-run having a digital camera as part of my working kit will save me money.



So about the lens - I will need to purchase one. I don't think I have the cash for more than one at the moment. Being used to the Mamiya 6x6 and the 50mm lens, I was thinking about getting a 24mm lens which I think should more or less give me the same diagonal field of view as the 50mm on my Mamiya. Then of course there is the option of getting the 24-70mm zoom lens which will of course give me the flexibility of choosing focal length, but at the cost of extra glass meaning losing a stop or two and loss in sharpness (not sure how significant). Plus, its another half kilo to lug around.



At first I was thinking ONLY prime lenses, ONLY Canon L series lenses - looking for the best glass possible and the sharpest image, hoping that it will somehow be similar to the images from my Mamiya. But then I started having different thoughts on this - saying to myself that the Canon 5D will probably never be a replacement for my Mamiya - so maybe I should treat the Canon 5D as a whole different animal. Meaning, that it won't be my go-to tool for extra crisp portraits, but rather a tool for some kind of other "look" I have yet to find for it. With this in mind, I thought that maybe going for the best glass to put on my 5D is not the right approach and that I would be better off getting a cheaper lens and possibly spending the difference on other equipment, or maybe a 2nd lens.



And finally, my budget. After buying the Canon 5d mII, I'll have about $1500 left to spend.



I'd really appreciate your opinions on this. Sorry for the long post, I'm just hoping that all this information might be helpful in understanding what I need.



If you want to ask any further questions, please don't hesitate.



I've included some samples of my work to give you an idea of the kind of stuff I do (below).



Thanks!



This was shot with my Mamiya

[url="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zT2CUnGx3AXTJRLiIaHTDw?feat=directlink"]My link[/url]



This too is with the Mamiya

[url="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zOf1QmxPXkoKw7eDzPlzdQ?feat=directlink"]My link[/url]



This was shot with the Holga

[url="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kTLBXkoJJAuKqlGHcdwlSA?feat=directlink"]My link[/url]
#2
Yes, a 24mm prime will come closest.



If you want to see what a full frame 135 fomat DSLR is capable of, the Canon 24mm f1.4 L IS USM is a great choice. However, that lens on its own is already over your stated budget of $1500.



A not all that bad, very affordable alternative would be the Sigma 24mm f1.8 EX DG Macro.



Inbetween in price, the manual focus Zeiss 25mm f2.8 ZE. not widely available yet.



You could of course start with a different lens, to get used to the camera, the system and you preference(s) in focal length working with the 5D mk II.

One lens, that is not super sharp, but very affordable, with very good contrast and colour for the price, is the Canon 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 USM. It actually is a lovely lens for the money, to try out what is what for you focal length wise. It is a discontinued lens, but you should be able to locate new copies for under $300.



Other bargains include the Canon 35mm f2, very compact and yet sharp with surprisingly ok optics, and the bargain start Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM. And the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 zoom, but it will not play totally nice with the Canon flash system (probably due to wrongly communicated subject distance?). Affordable and sharp for a zoom, though.
#3
[quote name='Brightcolours' date='25 June 2010 - 09:35 PM' timestamp='1277494513' post='702']

the Canon 24mm f1.4 L IS USM is a great choice.[/quote]





At least it would be, if it existed ... the actual 24mm is not an IS lens ...

but version II of this lens is available so ...

it's the EF 24/1.4L II USM.
#4
[quote name='Rainer' date='25 June 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1277495698' post='703']

At least it would be, if it existed ... the actual 24mm is not an IS lens ...

but version II of this lens is available so ...

it's the EF 24/1.4L II USM.

[/quote]

Haha, thanks for "correcting" my typo.
#5
Hi, Welcome to the forum, and thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed post!



I guess everyone will be giving the benefit of their own experience here (and their own preferences), so I guess I'll do the same.



One of my favourite lenses right now is the Voigtländer Ultron 40mm/f2. It's nice and sharp, and very small: wide enough for the kind of shots you're boing, but fine for full-body portraits too. It's a manual focus lens, but the electronics (focus confirmation and aperture) are linked to the Canon body. It costs around 400 euros.



Somehow the limitation of the being a prime lens and manual focus makes this a really creative lens to use.
#6
[quote name='adifrank' date='25 June 2010 - 11:39 AM' timestamp='1277491163' post='700']

I am pretty sure that in the long-run having a digital camera as part of my working kit will save me money.

[/quote]



He he ha ha oooh ha ho ho ... Being any kind of photographer will save you money? To paraphrase Erasmus, "When I get a little money, I buy lenses. And if any is left over, I buy food."



::wiping tears from eyes::

Um, yes, I am definitely not spending money on film or processing any more. But I am spending a similar quantity on Photoshop and other software to process digital images (considered on a per-annum basis). But I am saving a lot of time previously wasted on labeling and scanning slides, purchasing labeling/database software to manage them, etc... But I have to buy more hard drive space now... I think financially for me it is a wash, though I now shoot about ten times as many images per year (in part due to the joys of HDR). However, in terms of the more important workflow I have come out way ahead going digital. If you're as serious about this as you sound, you'll realize this is a cost of being in the business, and that since any business is about generating revenue you're miles ahead improving your workflow. (This practical view applies to most advanced amateurs as much as to professionals. We're here to have fun, not label slides.)



Quote:So about the lens - I will need to purchase one. I don't think I have the cash for more than one at the moment. Being used to the Mamiya 6x6 and the 50mm lens, I was thinking about getting a 24mm lens which I think should more or less give me the same diagonal field of view as the 50mm on my Mamiya. Then of course there is the option of getting the 24-70mm zoom lens which will of course give me the flexibility of choosing focal length, but at the cost of extra glass meaning losing a stop or two and loss in sharpness (not sure how significant). Plus, its another half kilo to lug around.



It's good you know what you want. I'm a big fan of primes, and think you'll get something closer to the feel of the medium format with a prime than a zoom--though there will always be emotional differences you'll pick up on. While an ultrawide aperture lens like a 24 f/1.4 has been suggested previously, don't overlook the slightly slower but very sharp 24 f/2.8 that Canon makes. B&H price is $320 versus $1700 for the f/1.4. With your camera body, changing your ISO to compensate a stop or two won't hurt most images significantly, but the f/2.8 will be much easier on the pocketbook and much lighter weight. A glance in EF Lens Works III shows that the lenses are very comparable in resolution/contrast stopped down to f/8, but the performance of the 24 f/1.4 wide open is weak--I'd expect similar performance on these lenses from f/2.8 on up after looking at these graphs.



Wider aperture lenses are not necessarily "better" lenses. Wider apertures are much harder to correct for optically since the light is being bent at sharper angles, resulting in high cost and more aberrations. The cost gets even higher because the percentage of buyers who need the ultrawide aperture is fairly small, so unit costs are driven up. The wide aperture does give one the option of slightly shallower depth of field, but you'll want to review your past images to see if that is important as a percentage of what you do.



In this business, I always feel you're best off investing in gear that affects a significant percentage of your images. Below about 3-5%, it's usually not worth buying at all. There is such a thing as having too many choices and too much gear.



My opinionated take: at least consider buying a 24mm f/2.8 and an 85mm f/1.8 (an excellent portrait lens) for $690 at B&H, pocket the rest of the dough and work on that for a year or three. When you notice things that you can't do, track the percentage of slides or situations that are affected and start saving for the item that will deliver the most images. I find it takes me at least a year to "digest" a new lens added to my bag, so I buy no more than one per year and usually less.



Oh, and if you're in North America consider putting some of that extra $$ into experimenting with an order of Chromira prints at West Coast Imaging. Once you see the difference the Chromira printer and professionally superior staff make, you'll throw your old inkjet prints in the trash.



Thanks for sharing the images. Nicely composed. A little Photoshop work will allow you to imitate the Holga with your new digi doodads.



Scott
#7
Hi people, thanks so much for the response! I've read your comments carefully and they did in fact provide me with new information that I am sure will help me arrive at a decision.



Brightcolors said:

Quote:Inbetween in price, the manual focus Zeiss 25mm f2.8 ZE. not widely available yet.



I was actually thinking very seriously about this lens. To tell you the truth, the thing that kind of put me off the idea was the Photozone review of it - [url="http://www.opticallimits.com/canon_eos_ff/505-zeiss25f28eosff"]see it here[/url].

Is this the lens you were referring to? It seems the Photozone reviewers were far from impressed. That being said, I DID read other reviews at other places which did speak highly of the lens... I don't know what to think of it.



I think my dilemma has been narrowed down to these alternatives:



Since I'll have plenty to learn about and get used to for a while once I get my new Canon 5d mII (my first ever dSLR) - maybe its a good idea to stick with what I am most familiar with. This being a good prime wide (24,25 or 28mm) lens. Three ways to go with this in mind, as I see it:

(a) go all out, maybe even surpass my budget by a couple hundred bucks and get the best prime glass I can currently afford. This would probably be the Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM AF. $1700 at B&H.

(<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> being a bit more tight on my wallet and going for the Zeiss 28mm f/2.0 Distagon T* Lens - which seems to score higher on reviews (also here at Photozone). I'm not discouraged by manual focusing at all, being very accustomed to it. $1283 at B&H.

© if I can confidently disregard the not-so-hot review of the Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Distagon T* ZF and count on it providing excellent crisp images, this would probably be the wisest choice for me. Being about half the price of the Canon 24mm/1.4L II, it will leave me with the option of getting a 2nd lens in the near future - $826 at B&H. This Option is kind of what Scott - California suggested:

Quote:My opinionated take: at least consider buying a 24mm f/2.8 and an 85mm f/1.8 (an excellent portrait lens) for $690 at B&H, pocket the rest of the dough and work on that for a year or three.

... but I'd rather get a better wide lens and give up the 85mm lens for now.



If anyone has any further insight regarding what I've managed to figure out, I'd be happy to hear it.



Thanks!!



p.s.

Quote:Oh, and if you're in North America consider putting some of that extra $$ into experimenting with an order of Chromira prints at West Coast Imaging. Once you see the difference the Chromira printer and professionally superior staff make, you'll throw your old inkjet prints in the trash.



I'm currently not in North America, though I might be moving to New York in a couple of years (...not quite West Coast). I don't doubt the quality of Chromira printers, but the inkjet printer I'm talking about is no ordinary inkjet printer. It is a specialty printer for photography, the staff is photography dedicated and they sit with you patiently going over each and every color-correction and test print-out. They use specialty fine-art paper imported from Germany (don't remember the paper company name... I'll find out and post back on it). It's a different beast when compared to other techniques of printing, but the outcomes are really unique and amazing. This guy opened up his shop about a year ago and photographers are swarming.



Peace!
#8
[quote name='adifrank' date='26 June 2010 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1277575241' post='717']

Hi people, thanks so much for the response! I've read your comments carefully and they did in fact provide me with new information that I am sure will help me arrive at a decision.



Brightcolors said:





I was actually thinking very seriously about this lens. To tell you the truth, the thing that kind of put me off the idea was the Photozone review of it - [url="http://www.opticallimits.com/canon_eos_ff/505-zeiss25f28eosff"]see it here[/url].

Is this the lens you were referring to? It seems the Photozone reviewers were far from impressed. That being said, I DID read other reviews at other places which did speak highly of the lens... I don't know what to think of it.[/quote]

You have to be very careful. Not all review sites are as objective as this site, especially when it comes to specific brands of glass. There is a good reason why Zeiss hasn't started manufacturing this lens in a ZE mount yet. I reckon it just can't compete with existing Canon glass. They are working on a new design for the 25, however. Once that is done, yes, maybe.

Quote:I think my dilemma has been narrowed down to these alternatives:



Since I'll have plenty to learn about and get used to for a while once I get my new Canon 5d mII (my first ever dSLR) - maybe its a good idea to stick with what I am most familiar with. This being a good prime wide (24,25 or 28mm) lens. Three ways to go with this in mind, as I see it:

(a) go all out, maybe even surpass my budget by a couple hundred bucks and get the best prime glass I can currently afford. This would probably be the Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM AF. $1700 at B&H.

(<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> being a bit more tight on my wallet and going for the Zeiss 28mm f/2.0 Distagon T* Lens - which seems to score higher on reviews (also here at Photozone). I'm not discouraged by manual focusing at all, being very accustomed to it. $1283 at B&H.

There are two more lenses in this line-up, namely the Canon EF 28 F/1.8, and the TS-E 24 F/3.5L Mk II. If you don't mind MF, you don't mind it is slightly more expensive than the EF 24L II, the TS-E will give you by far the best optics in that range, and allows for quite some extra creative abilities because of its tilt and shift possibilities. And the 28 F/1.8 is one of those underrated little gems out there. I replaced mine with a 24L at the time, but I really hated to see it go, only because it was so good.



Another alternative could be the older 24L, Mark I if you like, which actually is an excellent lens and can probably be had for about half the price of the II in good, used condition. Prior to the 24L II, it was, even by 16-9.net, considered to be the world class leader in its focal length. The Mark II certainly isn't twice as good, so something to look at too IMO.



BTW, if you don't mind slightly longer, there stil are the 35L and the 35 F/2. The former is excellent and F/1.4, the latter is a little gem again, almost as good as the 35L, just that it isn't weather sealed, has an ArcDrive motor for AF (undestructable almost but a little noisy and slow compared to USM), and of course F/2. And the price is really sweet.

And then there also is the ZE 35 F/2, which is considered to be one of the best in the Zeiss lineup.

Quote: © if I can confidently disregard the not-so-hot review of the Zeiss 25mm f/2.8 Distagon T* ZF and count on it providing excellent crisp images, this would probably be the wisest choice for me.

I don't think it is. The ZF means you still need an adapter, a good one for that matter, and all wil be manual, not only focusing, but also stopping down the aperture, and metering has to be down stopped down too. And see my remarks higher up <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />.

Quote:Being about half the price of the Canon 24mm/1.4L II, it will leave me with the option of getting a 2nd lens in the near future - $826 at B&H.

Before you go ahead, make sure the retailer you get it from has a very good return policy. Personally, I hated the IQ SOOC of the 5D II and ZE 28, and I know I deperately wanted to like it. It is also considered one of the lesser brethren in the family. I didn't like the vignetting, which somehow was much stronger than Photozone suggests, and I didn't think the IQ was that good either. Again, the ZE 28, just like the 25, is also not considered to be the best in the Zeiss lineup.



As I mentioned higher up, maybe it is worthwhile looking into a 24L older model. It'll cost you about half the price of the Mark II for a used one in good condition. And it'll give you F/1.4 plus AF, and great bokeh to boot (for a WA).

Quote: This Option is kind of what Scott - California suggested:



... but I'd rather get a better wide lens and give up the 85mm lens for now.

You may not have to <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />.

Quote:If anyone has any further insight regarding what I've managed to figure out, I'd be happy to hear it.



Thanks!!



p.s.





I'm currently not in North America, though I might be moving to New York in a couple of years (...not quite West Coast). I don't doubt the quality of Chromira printers, but the inkjet printer I'm talking about is no ordinary inkjet printer. It is a specialty printer for photography, the staff is photography dedicated and they sit with you patiently going over each and every color-correction and test print-out. They use specialty fine-art paper imported from Germany (don't remember the paper company name... I'll find out and post back on it). It's a different beast when compared to other techniques of printing, but the outcomes are really unique and amazing. This guy opened up his shop about a year ago and photographers are swarming.



Peace!


HTH, kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#9
Just had another thought that might have some affect on my choice budget-wise...



So while I further beat my head on the wall concerning lenses, I'm going to swerve a bit off-topic, in the sense that my question is about flash compatibility with the Canon 5D mark II rather than lenses.



It seems that I've been getting some really informative responses from people who really know their stuff, so I figure no better place than here to get a good answer.



I currently own a Metz mecablitz 32MZ-3 Flash.



[url="http://www0.shopping.com/xPO-Metz-F-PENTAX-Metz-Mecablitz-32MZ3-Manual-Auto-TTL-AF-Flash-w-Pentax-Module-USA-5068p"]A link showing the Metz 32MZ-3 Flash[/url]



[url="http://www.metz.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/Download/Homepage_Englisch/Photo_Electronic/Bedienungsanleitung_GB/mecablitz_GB/mecablitz_20_bis_36/mecablitz_32_MZ_3_D_GB.pdf"]The Metz 32MZ-3 Users Manual (the first part is in German, later it gets to the English - pg. 30)[/url]



While visiting a local camera store I asked to mount my flash on a Canon 5D model they had there on display to see that it worked. It did! So I naturally figured that I'll be safe using my trusty old Metz with the Canon 5D mII.



But then when asking around in one of the photography forums (before I found this one <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> ) - someone wrote this:



Quote:I don’t know the triggering voltage of the Metz that you mention, but using a non-dedicated flash on a modern digital camera can cause a lot of damage very quickly, so be sure it’s ok before trying it.



Without knowing exactly what he is talking about, I'm kind of in the dark on this one...



Would highly appreciate your thoughts on this. THX ! ! !
#10
[quote name='adifrank' date='27 June 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1277594468' post='719']

Just had another thought that might have some affect on my choice budget-wise...



So while I further beat my head on the wall concerning lenses, I'm going to swerve a bit off-topic, in the sense that my question is about flash compatibility with the Canon 5D mark II rather than lenses.



It seems that I've been getting some really informative responses from people who really know their stuff, so I figure no better place than here to get a good answer.



I currently own a Metz mecablitz 32MZ-3 Flash.



[url="http://www0.shopping.com/xPO-Metz-F-PENTAX-Metz-Mecablitz-32MZ3-Manual-Auto-TTL-AF-Flash-w-Pentax-Module-USA-5068p"]A link showing the Metz 32MZ-3 Flash[/url]



[url="http://www.metz.de/fileadmin/fm-dam/Download/Homepage_Englisch/Photo_Electronic/Bedienungsanleitung_GB/mecablitz_GB/mecablitz_20_bis_36/mecablitz_32_MZ_3_D_GB.pdf"]The Metz 32MZ-3 Users Manual (the first part is in German, later it gets to the English - pg. 30)[/url]



While visiting a local camera store I asked to mount my flash on a Canon 5D model they had there on display to see that it worked. It did! So I naturally figured that I'll be safe using my trusty old Metz with the Canon 5D mII.



But then when asking around in one of the photography forums (before I found this one <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' /> ) - someone wrote this:







Without knowing exactly what he is talking about, I'm kind of in the dark on this one...



Would highly appreciate your thoughts on this. THX ! ! !

[/quote]

This is all about the voltage that passes over the flash contacts for hot shoe and/or cable connections to the camera.



Older, non-digitally prepared flashes often have rather high voltages running over those contacts, 110 volts and some even more, while digital cameras are only prepared, AFAIK, for low voltage currents (only 10V) over these contacts, IOW, for the newer flashes for use with digital cameras. Since this lower voltage is only 10V, it is indeed possible for an older flash to potentially fry the electronic circuitry of a digital camera.



Personally, besides a few modern flashes, I do still use those older flashes, but only ever remotely triggered, either with radio slave units or flash trigger slave units.



You are ok with your Metz, however, as on page 26 it mentions "Synchronisation Nieder-Volt Zündung" (Synchronization Low Voltage Ignition, on page 52). With Low- Voltage Ignition a low voltage like 10 V is meant. I also don't think the retailer woudl have allowed you to connect your flash to a 5D Mk II if he didn't know it to be a low voltage flash anyway.



HTH, kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
  


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)