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leaks and rumors of new canon products
#20
(12-13-2018, 09:31 PM)JJ_SO Wrote: Now you really should take a very deep breath, Florent. Currently there's one single L-mount FF body around, the Leica SL, which sets you back for 6450 CHF - body only. Then there are three APS-C Leicas, the CL is one of the most expensive (2500 CHF) APS-C bodies around. The kit lens (!) goes for 1700 CHF... that's one of the "cheapest" you can get for L-mount, a 90/2 APO would cost 5520.- CHF

In your post you mention other cheap APS-C or µ 4/3 models. I find that very bizarre that you mention the super expensive high end L-system with only one body available and judge the 135 ML market as "overcrowded".

At the time of film cameras there were manufacturers with a lot more models than we see today. And the "historic stems of 135 format" at least led to a huge selection of MF lenses, much more than there ever will be available for the in-between APS-C stuff which never was more than a niche product (Olympus Pen and a couple of half-format Yashicas in film era), simply because bigger sensors were to costly to make and sell. I agree, there's a lot of coincidence in the 24×36 mm format and I don't fully understand why it has become so popular, but I guess the developing machinery for the films were already existing, the cameras cheaper to manufacture than MF and the films came from perforated movie material - so available in a bigger and cheaper selection than MF. There was enough production power behind that format.

135 is not "the solution for everything" and I don't have the feeling anybody ever said so. But APS-C or µ 4/3 are also not a solution for everything - in fact, they fall rather short as soon as it comes to wide angle lenses, but shine in tele (which are not really available from Fuji...). So, it's just the right tools for the job, nothing more or less. I do not see that big diff between these formats, not even in lenses: A Fuji 16/1.4 sells for 888.- CHF, a Sigma 24/1.4 for 745.-. I could bring other examples to show it's not cheaper to make great small, yet fast lenses. If you can live with slow zooms, great. I can't for what I want to do, and I need high ISO regularly, I sometime order big prints and I don't do so to show off, so speak for yourself Wink

An A1 print out of a Fuji or µ 4/3  is more likely disappointing. And I always can go to APS-C with each FX model.

About FF ML being overcrowded vs APS-C: at present there are 4 FF manufacturers: Nikon, Canon, Sony, Leica. Very soon there will be Panasonic and Sigma which brings this number to 6! The number of bodies will likely greatly increase. Remember: it's just starting.  In comparison APS-C has Fuji, Sony, Leica and Canon. Sony is very likely a dead end as well as Canon. We'll see in 5 years, but it seems pretty obvious that the ML FF space is much more crowded than its APS-C counterpart.

Regarding the "right tool for the job", I 100% agree with you and I'm not saying that there is a single format for all use cases. I was just saying that I strongly believe that a lot of people get into FF solely to be perceived as "pro"(and no, I wasn't saying you're part of this crowd).

Instead of comparing the Sigma 24 f1.4 which is a 3rd party option to the Fuji 16 f1.4, you should consider a Nikon or Canon one. For instance the Nikon 24 f1.4 sells for nearly 1800 CHF. Not exactly in the same price category as the Fuji ;-)
--Florent

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RE: leaks and rumors of new canon products - by thxbb12 - 12-13-2018, 10:59 PM

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