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Canon RF 85mm f/1.2 L USM announced
#21
(05-09-2019, 11:05 AM)Klaus Wrote: Now do the same comparison with Z 50mm f/1.8 and Z 24-70mm f/2.8 ;-)

Okay.

Sony/Zeiss Sonnar T 55mm f1.8 official Sony price: €1100,-
Nikkor Z 50mm f1.8 S official Nikon price: €679,-

Sony FE 24-70mm f2.8 GM : €2500,-
Nikkor Z 24-70mm f2.8 S : €2499,-
#22
(05-09-2019, 11:20 AM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(05-09-2019, 11:05 AM)Klaus Wrote: Now do the same comparison with Z 50mm f/1.8 and Z 24-70mm f/2.8 ;-)

Okay.

Sony/Zeiss Sonnar T 55mm f1.8 official Sony price: €1100,-
Nikkor Z 50mm f1.8 S official Nikon price: €679,-

Sony FE 24-70mm f2.8 GM : €2500,-
Nikkor Z 24-70mm f2.8 S : €2499,-

You forgot to mention the Sony FE 50mm f/1.8 ;-)

And in terms of street price, we are talking about 2050EUR for the Sony 24-70/2.8 and 2350EUR for the Nikkor.

The Z 35mm f/1.8 (800EUR) has no direct counterpart but the FE 28mm f/2 (400EUR) should have a comparable price tag - but obviously ...

The RF 85mm f/1.2 will cost 3000EUR - the Sony FE 85mm f/1.4 goes for 1700EUR at the moment. Sure, not comparable but that difference is not just a little there.
Chief Editor - opticallimits.com

Doing all things Canon, MFT, Sony and Fuji
#23
(05-09-2019, 11:47 AM)Klaus Wrote:
(05-09-2019, 11:20 AM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(05-09-2019, 11:05 AM)Klaus Wrote: Now do the same comparison with Z 50mm f/1.8 and Z 24-70mm f/2.8 ;-)

Okay.

Sony/Zeiss Sonnar T 55mm f1.8 official Sony price: €1100,-
Nikkor Z 50mm f1.8 S official Nikon price: €679,-

Sony FE 24-70mm f2.8 GM : €2500,-
Nikkor Z 24-70mm f2.8 S : €2499,-

You forgot to mention the Sony FE 50mm f/1.8 ;-)

And in terms of street price, we are talking about 2050EUR for the Sony 24-70/2.8 and 2350EUR for the Nikkor.

The Z 35mm f/1.8 (800EUR) has no direct counterpart but the FE 28mm f/2 (400EUR) should have a comparable price tag - but obviously ...

The RF 85mm f/1.2 will cost 3000EUR - the Sony FE 85mm f/1.4 goes for 1700EUR at the moment. Sure, not comparable but that difference is not just a little there.

The FE 50mm f1.8 is NOT comparable to the Nikkor S, the SZ 55mm f1.8 is.

Sony FE 50mm f1.8 Sony price: €399,-
Canon EF 50mm f1.8 STM Canon price: €199,- (basically the SAME optical formula, the Sony having a built in adapter)
Nikkor AF-S 50mm f1.8 Nikon price: €279,-

With the Nikkor Z 24-70mm f2.8 S being brand new, not a very convincing argument to call Sony cheaper because some vendors have lowered the price a bit on the Sony lens. Same goes for comparing the 85mm f1.2 price when it is not even on the market yet and the Sony 85mm f1.4 lens which has its price slashed by some vendors. The Canon EF 85mm f1.4 L IS USM has a lower official Canon price than what you seem to have found for that older Sony,  and that Canon goes for €1497,-

The Canon RF 35mm f1.8 IS STM Macro has been priced by Canon for €499,-. The Sony FE 28mm f2 is priced by Sony for €480,-. The SonyZeiss FE 35mm f2.8 is priced by Sony for €950,-.
#24
Of course, you are technically right that DSLR lenses are cheaper but it remains completely irrelevant in the mirrorless-centric discussion.

You can argue with performance and whether we are "allowed" to do comparisons - the market will decide in the end anyway.
In Japan they decided in the meantime as we now know - we'll see about other regions soon I reckon.

An A7 II with 28-70mm costs about half of the EOS RP kit with the 24-105L or the Nikon Z6 with 24-70mm. That tells a story.

Sure, an unfair comparison. Sony will not care about old school lens designs (and correspondingly low price tags) as long as they own the vast majority of the market share.
We all know that a manufacturer owns your balls once you bought into their system and Sony owns many balls by now. CaNikon is to Sony in mirrorless cams what Pentasx is to CaNikon in DSLRs.
Chief Editor - opticallimits.com

Doing all things Canon, MFT, Sony and Fuji
#25
Moving the goal post, that is what you are doing. First it was about lens pricing and how Sony somehow priced their lenses more affordable, which I showed it not true, almost to the contrary in fact. Now it is about current mirrorless FF marketshare?

I don't find it irrelevant how a Canon 50mm f1.8 STM with adapter is the same size and costs less than a Sony 50mm f1.8 with built in adapter.

And I don't get why someone would buy a "slow" zoom lens on FF as only lens. Quite a waste of FF, to put it mildly.

In my opinion, FF's main advantage is possible more shallow DOF especially with fast primes, and then the RP is never a good choice. But that is an entirely different discussion.
#26
(05-09-2019, 02:47 PM)Brightcolours Wrote: And I don't get why someone would buy a "slow" zoom lens on FF as only lens. Quite a waste of FF, to put it mildly.

In my opinion, FF's main advantage is possible more shallow DOF especially with fast primes, and then the RP is never a good choice. But that is an entirely different discussion.

There's more to FF than DOF (even though it's a big selling point, it certainly is for me).

The 24-105 L IS is a fairly popular kit lens with any affordable Canon FF since the days of the initial 5D. And it's also a fairly popular lens among wedding photographers, at the long end, even f/4 can give you quite some background separation and nice blur (if the background isn't right behind the person you're aiming at). f/2.8 lenses often need to be stopped down at these kind of event shootings (weddings, conferences, etc.), that's even true for the 70-200 zooms.

Side note: fun to watch that the old triggers still lead to the same reactions and results here, even years later Wink
Editor
opticallimits.com

#27
".. as only lens" was key ;-)
#28
(05-09-2019, 03:11 PM)mst Wrote: Side note: fun to watch that the old triggers still lead to the same reactions and results here, even years later Wink

There are many empty freezers once used for film which nowadays keep the triggers fresh.
#29
BC, I can't disagree with the numbers you pulled, Sony gear is not always sold at MSRP however. They tend to run quite deep discounts on their FF system (at least in US). Look the price of A7Riii and A9, plus lens discounts. If you are shopping today which other company can beat their pricing?
Of topic: In addition they have some sweet choices that are well priced even without discount - 12-24f4 and 24f1.4. Do you want to take guess how much CaNikon will charge for these specs?
#30
I tend to agree with Klaus en Marcus. The rest of the world seems to be at the same direction. Few facts
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/dw-201903_e.pdf
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2376449107...mera-sales
My point
No doubt great lens. There are two questions
1. Who needs this lens?
2. Who will buy this lens?
Funny part
What for crappy, dirty cheap and lightweight lens compare to this
https://www.zeiss.com/corporate/int/abou...ptics.html
The question is where do you place the border. Tens of millions $ and thousands and kilograms sounds acceptable for some application areas but not for me.
  


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