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Double six hundred attack from Sony: 600/4 and 200-600 are live!
#1
I'll refer you to DPR for the juicy details:

Sony announces 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS and 600mm F4 GM OSS lenses
https://m.dpreview.com/articles/41460850...-f5-6-6-3/

Those fond of perusing random rumor sites remember the recent drama with the stolen prototype/mockup. Smile
#2
Sony does it again !........ the one photographic bastion that they hadn't conquered was the wildlife segment ..... yes they have the amazing 400mm F2.8 (somewhat lacking in reach on FF), so these two new lenses fill that missing gap.
Sony state many will use these lenses on their APS series, I just don't see many opting to use these huge lenses perched on an A6400 .


If you're happy with the modern day super tele-zooms, Sony's version looks great, weighing only 200 gms more than the Tamron G2 and a whole load less than the heavy and poorly balanced Sigma sport, at $2,000 they have a certain winner there.

So, for $5,500 you get the complete wildlife package (A9 + 200-600mm) ready to go ....... not cheap but not over the top either ........ (I hope I don't keep saying that too often to myself!)

Which ever way you look at it Sony is marching on at a pace and it's a while since we have seen a new FF body from them ...... something a little bigger that's way better in the hand would be nice.

Nikon and Canon have some catching up to do with everything in ML in both AF-C and frame rate ...... Tony Northrups ML shoot out shows it all .

The Canon R achieved 2.5 Fps (utterly hopeless) ..... the Z7 about 3.5 fps (meh) ...... the Fuji XT-3 14 shots of which 8-9 in focus (very admirable) ......the A7 III 5 fps ..... the Sony A9 ..... 20 Fps all in focus .......which means all except the Fuji and the Sony A9 ML has been a backward step .....

........ that's the level of difference for sports ML, it's either the Fuji or the A9 ...... and it's the A9 that gets the cigar!

If you aren't a sports wildlife shooter this is probably nonsense to you ... even if you are a sports shooter... there's still plenty of nonsense to be had ! Smile

Well done Sony ..... and Fuji ...... otherwise how would ML wildlife shooters get the shot?


Sony are dominating ML market share while the Panasonic FF ML S1R appears to be dead on arrival ..... nobody's buying it!
Dave's clichés
#3
As if a D500 / D850 would give you 7 or 10 frames per second in perfect focus Rolleyes . Sorry Dave, but that's definitely not happening in my experience, and that goes for the Tamron, the Sigma and for the Nikkor 300/4 (with active VR) as well. Especially the engaged VR will throw your focus point often off target.

The Z 6 should be a bit faster in aquiring focus, but the Z 7 is nothing to write home about in terms of speed - and it is not meant to be a speed-giant anyway. But if I manage to engage tracking (in my eyes far too complicated compared to the simple 3D-tracking), this tracking will cover the whole frame - of a full frame, not your tiny D500  Tongue.

And then, α9 and X-T3 are at least 3rd generation bodies. I can't speak about X-T1 or X-T3, but X-T2 needed 4 major firmware upgrades during 2 years to get to a usable AF-C - which still lacks a feature I often need: Manual override, when the bird sits behind twigs or hidden behind reeds is impossible with an X-T2, and the reach of the 100-400 sucks as much as the focus limiter or the misplaced manual focus ring.

So, in ML land the α9 rules. For now... But both Chris and Barney had a hard time in a low lit soccer arena. The fact the 200-600 doesn't extend is something very welcome.

Btw. the 60-600 is better than the 150-600 sports at the long end, and less poorly balanced, too, as the extension tube is made of plastic and the hood as well, so much lighter than it's heavy metal brother.
#4
(06-12-2019, 07:56 AM)davidmanze Wrote: Sony does it again !........ the one photographic bastion that they hadn't conquered was the wildlife segment ..... yes they have the amazing 400mm F2.8 (somewhat lacking in reach on FF),  so these two new lenses fill that missing gap.
 Sony state many will use these lenses on their APS series, I just don't see many opting to use these huge lenses perched on an A6400 .

 
   If you're happy with the modern day super tele-zooms, Sony's version looks great,  weighing only 200 gms more than the Tamron G2 and a whole load less than the heavy and poorly balanced Sigma sport, at $2,000 they have a certain winner there.

   So, for $5,500 you get the complete wildlife package (A9 + 200-600mm) ready to go ....... not cheap but not over the top either ........ (I hope I don't keep saying that too often to myself!)

  Which ever way you look at it Sony is marching on at a pace and it's a while since we have seen a new FF body from them ...... something a little bigger that's way better in the hand would be nice.

    Nikon and Canon have some catching up to do with everything in ML in both AF-C  and frame rate ...... Tony Northrups ML shoot out shows it all .

  The Canon R achieved 2.5 Fps (utterly hopeless) ..... the Z7  about 3.5 fps (meh) ...... the Fuji XT-3  14 shots of which 8-9 in focus (very admirable) ......the A7 III  5 fps .....   the Sony A9 ..... 20 Fps all in focus .......which means all except the Fuji and the Sony A9 ML has been a backward step .....

      ........ that's the level of difference for sports ML,  it's either the Fuji or the A9 ...... and of it's the A9 that gets the cigar!

  If you aren't a sports wildlife shooter this is probably nonsense to you ... even if you are a sports shooter... there's still plenty of nonsense to be had !  Smile

   Well done Sony ..... and Fuji ...... otherwise how would ML wildlife shooters get the shot?
 
     
   Sony are dominating ML market share while the Panasonic FF ML  S1R appears to be dead on arrival ..... nobody's buying it!

You proclaim they have a winner but do you know anything about optical performance; build quality or auto focus performance ? Or are you saying those metrics are not relevant to the determination of whether they have a winner ?
#5
I place a certain amount of respect for Sony's latest E mount lenses for sure ...... I also place high expectations from a pro 600mm F4 OSS Sony lens ......

........ does that sound so strange ?? Given the performance of their recent glass.

No, I'm basing this on the Sony A9 in it's latest FW stance and having the appropriate level of tele glass to put an end that too short a reach issue ...... (that's where I live ...... at 600mm APSc)
Addressing the lenses themselves ....... firstly construction ...... without metallurgy analysis of the body, it sure looks superbly built, how much metal remains to be seen .... with sealing and internal focus and internal zooming ( focus breathing? to be seen) ...... with rapid and accurate focussing on both models (best on the 600mm F4 of course)

Sharpness awaits a technical review for the numbers ....... but DPreviews's review seem to confirm any doubts you have raised You2!

With Sony being the best selling ML this is huge ...... and I don't apologize for enthusing at all !!


DPreview's review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BZBZFWtF_0

(06-12-2019, 11:07 AM)JJ_SO Wrote: As if a D500 / D850 would give you 7 or 10 frames per second in perfect focus Rolleyes . Sorry Dave, but that's definitely not happening in my experience, and that goes for the Tamron, the Sigma and for the Nikkor 300/4 (with active VR) as well. Especially the engaged VR will throw your focus point often off target.

The Z 6 should be a bit faster in aquiring focus, but the Z 7 is nothing to write home about in terms of speed - and it is not meant to be a speed-giant anyway. But if I manage to engage tracking (in my eyes far too complicated compared to the simple 3D-tracking), this tracking will cover the whole frame - of a full frame, not your tiny D500  Tongue.

And then, α9 and X-T3 are at least 3rd generation bodies. I can't speak about X-T1 or X-T3, but X-T2 needed 4 major firmware upgrades during 2 years to get to a usable AF-C - which still lacks a feature I often need: Manual override, when the bird sits behind twigs or hidden behind reeds is impossible with an X-T2, and the reach of the 100-400 sucks as much as the focvus limiter or the wrong places manual focus ring.

So, in ML land the α9 rules. For now... But both Chris and Barney had a hard time in a low lit soccer arena. The fact the 200-600 doesn't extend is something very welcome.

Btw. the 60-600 is better than the 150-600 sports at the long end, and less poorly balanced, too, as the extension tube is made of plastic and the hood as well, so much lighter than it's heavy metal brother.
     
   Just to say first I'm looking from a birders viewpoint  ...... that means primarily speed of AF, reach, IQ and focus .... in many ways I wish I wasn't ...... but there it is!
 No, I don't get 10/10 shots in focus with BIF either ....... I get three or four in difficult BIF situations up to 8 when birds are relatively still.
  You saw Chris and Barney struggling ??  ..... I must have missed it!

   Any way this about Sony and it's great A9 ..... and the lenses you can out on it ........

  and to trump it all ...... it's the Same price as the top Sigmas ......

 Which would you choose if you had an A9 ..... the Sigmas?
Dave's clichés
#6
(06-12-2019, 02:22 PM)davidmanze Wrote: Just to say first I'm looking from a birders viewpoint  ...... that means primarily speed of AF, reach, IQ and focus .... in many ways I wish I wasn't ...... but there it is!
 No, I don't get 10/10 shots in focus with BIF either ....... I get three or four in difficult BIF situations up to 8 when birds are relatively still.
  You saw Chris and Barney struggling ??  ..... I must have missed it!

   Any way this about Sony and it's great A9 ..... and the lenses you can out on it ........

  and to trump it all ...... it's the Same price as the top Sigmas ......

 Which would you choose if you had an A9 ..... the Sigmas?

In the video of Barney and Chris at 7'51" Chris started to mention something about hard time to focus.

I agree with your viewpoints, but I like to add "handling also gets important, if a lens is heavier than 2 kg and very long". I don't understand why Sony has not included an arca-compatible foot (the 600/4 is 13 k$ and I need to buy a plate??? Okay, not I, but these poor Sony suckers  Big Grin )

As Jordan added, no distance scale is also a bit disappointing.

I think Sony users are better off with the genuine lens (speaking of 200-600) than with a Sigma or Tamron adapted to a Sony. The lenses themselves are not - even not the most expensive 60-600 as high priced as the Sony, but with the necessary adapter it's nearly equal and I guess the genuine lens will do the focus job quicker.

The Tamron delivers focus accuracy on mirrorless (at least the 150-600 does, the 100-400 still lacks of a FW update, since 10 months nothing) and so does Sigma. Delivering focus accuracy and firmware updates, that is. And not only on a Z, but also on a 1 V2 (600 × 2.7...) It looks as if a Fiat 500 would pull a sky crane...

[Image: 2019-05-24-_DST4777-L.jpg]
https://sojujo.smugmug.com/Other/Sigma-R...-DktFrLv/A


[Image: 2019-05-24-_DST4795-L.jpg]
https://sojujo.smugmug.com/Other/Sigma-R...-BzQJFKT/A

As Mark Smith tells, he rather likes the α9 (https://youtu.be/GyBZ2aFk93I) for birds.
#7
The Tamron's focus accuracy is fantastic ..... never any front or back focus

Actually I'm not sure if the the A9 stops down for autofocus ..... the size of the AF sensors will give the DSLR that edge in low light, for sports matches that's an issue ...... most birders don't wan't 25,600 ISO images anyway.

Does the Z7 Af at full aperture?
Dave's clichés
#8
Which G9? I have no idea, what an ɑ9 does to focus. But yesterday night I saw a video of mark Smith with both of these lenses and his ɑ9. He was rather happy with AF performance when people were running towards the camera. And he is one hell of a birder... You saw the specs of the Sony glass? 2115 Grams for the 200-600 and only 3040 for the 600/4 - that's why Mark said "this weighs nothing!" Well done, Sony!!

The Z7 was supposed to stop down, but only until f/8. And I don't know if it does so in all AF-modes. Yesterday it was too late but I think I haven't put it to the test with the G2 after the FW update of the body. I just checked if the 100-400 is still not working and thing about of getting a Sigma 100-400 additionally, because taht one IS working with a Z and very accurate and fast.
#9
Canon's new 600mm f4 L IS USM III weighs about the same (3050 grams). The length is also about the same, and so is the price! They also now use fluorite. Talking about copying a page out of Canon's playbook!

The big difference is that the Sony apparently has 24 elements, where the Canon makes do with 17.
#10
(06-13-2019, 09:00 AM)JJ_SO Wrote: Which G9? I have no idea, what an ɑ9 does to focus. But yesterday night I saw a video of mark Smith with both of these lenses and his ɑ9. He was rather happy with AF performance when people were running towards the camera. And he is one hell of a birder... You saw the specs of the Sony glass? 2115 Grams for the 200-600 and only 3040 for the 600/4 - that's why Mark said "this weighs nothing!" Well done, Sony!!

The Z7 was supposed to stop down, but only until f/8. And I don't know if it does so in all AF-modes. Yesterday it was too late but I think I haven't put it to the test with the G2 after the FW update of the body. I just checked if the 100-400 is still not working and thing about of getting a Sigma 100-400 additionally, because that one IS working with a Z and very accurate and fast.

Of course I meant the Sony A9!    OK thanks JoJu!
Dave's clichés
  


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