Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The weird but interesting RF 600/800mm f/11 DO STM IS
#11
(07-06-2020, 05:52 PM)davidmanze Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:46 PM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:27 PM)davidmanze Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:02 PM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 10:43 AM)davidmanze Wrote:        ....... not to be confused with the G1!!


https://www.tamron.eu/lenses/sp-150-600m...vc-usd-g2/

1:39X is still not a thing, no matter if you write G1 or G2. Both do 0.26x, by the way.


  What do you mean by a thing exactly  ??

It is either something is either a ratio (1:2 for instance) or a magnification (times something), like 0.5X. So not 1:39X. And 1:39 would be 0.0256x max. magnification, which does not seem right either.  Confused Blush

   I'm now confused too about maths .... but which ever way you roll the dice  a ratio of "1:0.14" is pretty poor on the magnification scale of things ......

Tamron G2 MFD max mag 1:0.39 ..... magnification equals 0.39 squared = 0.1521X     ...... maybe  Smile

Hehee...

No.

Tamron 150-500mm magnification: 1:3.9.  So about 1:4. Meaning: 4 times the film/sensor width is the minimum with the subject can have to be frame filling. That is about 0.25x max. magnification.
Calculate one from the other notation:
1:3.9 -> 1 / 3.9 = 0.2564x
Or if you have 0.25x -> 1 / 0.25 = 4 -> 1:4 ratio

Both the G1 and G2 have the same max. magnification.
#12
With MFD of four and six meters don't expect a good magnification
However who wants to use a 800mm lens for macro?
Dave correct me if I am wrong but in real life, framing a bird at 800mm within seconds is a very difficult task forget about framing it in flight...
#13
(07-06-2020, 06:19 PM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 05:52 PM)davidmanze Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:46 PM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:27 PM)davidmanze Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 03:02 PM)Brightcolours Wrote: 1:39X is still not a thing, no matter if you write G1 or G2. Both do 0.26x, by the way.
The G1 has a MFD of 2.7 mts and a 1:5 ratio 

  What do you mean by a thing exactly  ??

It is either something is either a ratio (1:2 for instance) or a magnification (times something), like 0.5X. So not 1:39X. And 1:39 would be 0.0256x max. magnification, which does not seem right either.  Confused Blush

   I'm now confused too about maths .... but which ever way you roll the dice  a ratio of "1:0.14" is pretty poor on the magnification scale of things ......

Tamron G2 MFD max mag 1:0.39 ..... magnification equals 0.39 squared = 0.1521X     ...... maybe  Smile

Hehee...

No.

Tamron 150-500mm magnification: 1:3.9.  So about 1:4. Meaning: 4 times the film/sensor width is the minimum with the subject can have to be frame filling. That is about 0.25x max. magnification.
Calculate one from the other notation:
1:3.9 -> 1 / 3.9 = 0.2564x
Or if you have 0.25x -> 1 / 0.25 = 4 -> 1:4 ratio

Both the G1 and G2 have the same max. magnification.
Dave's clichés
#14
[Image: D2A0DAF7D87C41E5B2D32D7DF6774170.jpg]

This is an early spring morning 500mm (f8) "macro".
The lens itself (55BB model code) does not quite offer this magnification (it goes down to 1:3 at 1.7 meters MFD) so a little extension tubing was required. I can totally see myself using 600mm or even 800mm to get narrow FOV and depth compression for "close ups".
You'll need quite some extension tubing with these 600mm/800mm Canon lenses to get similar magnification.

By the way, the specs do seem legit.. The EF 800mm f5.6 L IS USM also has a 6m MFD, and also gets 0.14x max. mag. And 600 / 800 = 0.75 x 6m = 4.5m. Checks out perfectly.
#15
(07-06-2020, 09:59 AM)davidmanze Wrote: 4.5 mts MFD is another disappointment ...... max mag. 0.14X ... rules out most insect photography .....


Tamron G2 

MFD 2.2 mts ...... max. mag. 1:39X ... great for butterflies etc.

  The 800mm F11 ........ 
 .......seems a more realistic proposition and has an MFD of 6 mts with a max mag of 0.14X ...... not great either but there's no other alternative in the light weight division .... 

Another point to take into consideration, dave:
Yes, because they are compact primes, they apparently do not have the room for a longer focus path (so a shorter MFD), so they behave like normal 600mm and 800mm primes (Nikkor AF-S 600mm f4 E FL VR : MFD 4.4 meters, max. mag. 0.14X. Nikkor AF-S 800mm f5.6 E FL VR: MFD 5.9 meters, max. mag. 0.15x ... looks familiar?).
And yes, the Nikkor 200-500mm Sigma 150-600mm, Tamron 150-600mm all get closer and get a higher max. magnification. But, they are not 600mm at MFD. They all show similar widening focus breathing towards MFD (and according to the specs, so will the new Canon RF 100-500mm L).

So, yes, you are right, the zooms get closer and the zooms get higher magnification. But they also do not offer 600mm narrow FOV, not even close.

I have not found any focus breathing video of the Tamron 150-500mm lenses yet to illustrate the focus breathing, but I did find a comparison of "one of the supertelezooms" (so either Tamron, Sigma or Nikkor) with the Nikkor AF-S 500mm f4 you are very familiar with (which does MFD 3.6 and 0.15x max. mag.) :
https://photographylife.com/nikon-200-50...50-600mm-c
This then is at least 3.6 meters away, the widening of the FOV will of course get worse at MFD for those super zooms. 

So if you are after the narrow FOV for close ups, the super zooms won't offer that.  If you want that narrow FOV 600mm would give, you will have to use extension tubes with the zooms, even more than with the primes.
#16
(07-06-2020, 06:23 PM)toni-a Wrote: With MFD of four and six meters don't expect a good magnification
However who wants to use a 800mm lens for macro?
Dave correct me if I am wrong but in real life, framing a bird at 800mm within seconds is a very difficult task forget about framing it in flight...

  The idea of these new lightweight telephoto lenses is they are easy to carry ....... so it will be aimed at photogs that are out taking nature shots  ....... and coming acroos butterflies and the like ...... unfortunately these new lenses 1:0.14 ratio won't cut it for critters that small ..... 
 ....... they are limited usage lenses ...... especially shooting at high shutter speeds when images will get noisy.



  Ah real life .... yeah that's where we want to be ..... never mind the spec sheets ..... Smile

 I'm trying to get closer images of the "lesser kestrel" at the moment ...... which are nesting under roof tiles in a village 30 kms from here ...... they fly very fast wheeling and catching dragonflies ..... so I resort to a tripod and gimbal!!
....... 600mm hand held on APSc is possible but difficult ...... 800mm would be next to impossible. ..... just finding this aerobatic bird in the OVF and tracking it results in very few keepers. ...... however less erratic bird flight patterns are perfectly possible.
 ........ this is where the wider field of view of the D850 would come in useful preventing wings being chopped off with little other penalties .....
Dave's clichés
#17
I strongly doubt that a "shooting critters" is a mainstream application for a 600/800mm lens.
We are really more talking about wildlife/birds and sports here. And sports will be mostly off-limits at f/11 I reckon.
Still, it could be a nice option for wildlife - when boosting the ISO a little.
Chief Editor - opticallimits.com

Doing all things Canon, MFT, Sony and Fuji
#18
I used a Panasonic 100-300 f/4-5.6 for kitesurf shots which is generally in bright conditions and it's totally fine.
Given this MFT setup at 300mm is equivalent to 600mm f11 on FF, I think these Canon lenses will be totally fine for this specific use case for instance. Also, these lenses could be good for casual wildlife shoots in good light as well IMO.
--Florent

Flickr gallery
#19
(07-07-2020, 06:50 AM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 09:59 AM)davidmanze Wrote: 4.5 mts MFD is another disappointment ...... max mag. 0.14X ... rules out most insect photography .....


Tamron G2 

MFD 2.2 mts ...... max. mag. 1:39X ... great for butterflies etc.

  The 800mm F11 ........ 
 .......seems a more realistic proposition and has an MFD of 6 mts with a max mag of 0.14X ...... not great either but there's no other alternative in the light weight division .... 

Another point to take into consideration, dave:
Yes, because they are compact primes, they apparently do not have the room for a longer focus path (so a shorter MFD), so they behave like normal 600mm and 800mm primes (Nikkor AF-S 600mm f4 E FL VR : MFD 4.4 meters, max. mag. 0.14X. Nikkor AF-S 800mm f5.6 E FL VR: MFD 5.9 meters, max. mag. 0.15x ... looks familiar?).
And yes, the Nikkor 200-500mm Sigma 150-600mm, Tamron 150-600mm all get closer and get a higher max. magnification. But, they are not 600mm at MFD. They all show similar widening focus breathing towards MFD (and according to the specs, so will the new Canon RF 100-500mm L).

So, yes, you are right, the zooms get closer and the zooms get higher magnification. But they also do not offer 600mm narrow FOV, not even close.

I have not found any focus breathing video of the Tamron 150-500mm lenses yet to illustrate the focus breathing, but I did find a comparison of "one of the supertelezooms" (so either Tamron, Sigma or Nikkor) with the Nikkor AF-S 500mm f4 you are very familiar with (which does MFD 3.6 and 0.15x max. mag.) :
https://photographylife.com/nikon-200-50...50-600mm-c
This then is at least 3.6 meters away, the widening of the FOV will of course get worse at MFD for those super zooms. 

So if you are after the narrow FOV for close ups, the super zooms won't offer that.  If you want that narrow FOV 600mm would give, you will have to use extension tubes with the zooms, even more than with the primes.

   Right ...... focus breathing on the G2!

 I've just mounted the G2 on the D750 which has the PV button configured for aperture stop down ....... stopped down to F32 at 600mm I racked the focus ring from infinity to MFD ..... and guess what? ..  focus breathing is minimal on this lens ...... things seem to get larger at closer distances ...... in short out of the lab FB is a non issue in the practical shooting world ......... Tamron did well to tame FB to this level.....

......... anyway 1:0.39 is 1:0.39 which ever way you cut it ...... it's magnification is measured at MFD after all ........ not at infinity .......whatever that effective FL may be!!

 I have also compared the F4E to the G2 and the F4E has a little longer FL at closer distances ...... again not by a lot!

  But all that's by the by .....

 ......  with the 2.2 MFD the G2 lets small birds "fill the frame" (on APSc) and that "fact" is worth a million technical explanations as to why you can't with lenses that don't focus close enough.

In short the G2 is the Swiss army knife of tele-zoom lenses and can play many roles ........

   The F11 Canons have strictly limited uses ...... and their MFD just adds to those limitations !!

Nice flower image btw!
Dave's clichés
#20
I only can judge from what that source posted. And your own observation compared with your 500mm f4 lens appears to confirm it: the Tamron does lose more focal length than that Nikkor. Of course, closer to MFD the Tamron will lose even more.
My point was clear and simple: If you want 600mm for the narrow FOV at close ups, it does not quite deliver. That has NOTHING to do with f11, just was looking into what you said about shooting close ups, and commenting on that.

Judging from the figures from the digital picture dot com, the Tamron does not have awful focal length loss, though.

I have nothing against the Tamron 150-600mm G2 (other than its weight), and do not have any reason to prefer these new Canon primes either, just trying to keep arguments fare and clean.
  


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)