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Canon mirror (catadioptric) lenses for mirrorless RF?
#11
(05-16-2021, 09:10 PM)toni-a Wrote: If they can  make autofocus tilt and shift, it won't be  hard to make autofocus mirror lens, especially someone already did it.
Frankly I am sure they came out with something that's why they are investing there otherwise they already have the new cheap tele primes.

    I suppose the AF and IS will give them some sort of new lease of life, as the main user issues were holding a light short lens stable, whilst trying to manually focus accurately ...... which made them a struggle to use  .... 
 
 ........that only leaves the "elephant in the room ... doughnuts!" ...... and the art of trying by careful compose the shot so as to control them as much as possible ....

..... as per BC's poetic examples ........
Dave's clichés
#12
(05-17-2021, 07:19 AM)davidmanze Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 09:10 PM)toni-a Wrote: If they can  make autofocus tilt and shift, it won't be  hard to make autofocus mirror lens, especially someone already did it.
Frankly I am sure they came out with something that's why they are investing there otherwise they already have the new cheap tele primes.

    I suppose the AF and IS will give them some sort of new lease of life, as the main user issues were holding a light short lens stable, whilst trying to manually focus accurately ...... which made them a struggle to use  .... 
 
 ........that only leaves the "elephant in the room ... doughnuts!" ...... and the art of trying by careful compose the shot so as to control them as much as possible ....

..... as per BC's poetic examples ........

You do get the images, Dave. Those are not about "smooth bokeh", but about what you can do with the lens. Only the one with Donna, our american Bulldog, has typical doughnut bokeh to which one could object if one wants. In some other shots, it is interesting which textures get created in the background, and they are not typical "document a flower" images, but rather about a whole composition, with light and colours.
Thanks for your thoughtful compliment, and understanding that one can embrace a lens' imperfections.
#13
All I know is that I had a lot of fun with my Tamron SP 500 f/8!  In fact, I still own it.  When I bought it I originally had the Canon Rebel XTi (10 MP).  It's biggest downfall to me was not the bokeh or the contrast.  Certainly not the sharpness!  It was as Dave mentioned, really not a flaw, but a strength that caused some problems.  The lens was so small and light that one would use it without a tripod, and then blame the lens because there was motion blur.  I have been shooting birds as my main subject for about two years, but shots like the following one (if I can upload it, my internet is really shaky now).  That took me in that direction.  I honestly had no idea that this bird existed locally, and in [Image: z]

I guess I am doing it wrong!

I used the insert photo button and entered the URL for the Flickr page with the size as small as 640x360 px.

Is there a way to do this for a slightly internet challenged person?  I could just print the link, but I'm not sure if there are rules about doing that.

Also, Canon does have the 600mm and 800mm F/11.  That isn't really in the same league as the the F/stops on these new mirror lenses.  I do remember an article by Bob Atkins where he compared his Canon 500mm f/4L to the Tamron SP 500 f/8.  Bob did of course say he could not recommend any mirror lens due to the bokeh mainly.  He did however mention that color abberations were practically non-existant, and he admitted that much to his surprise the SP 500 was at least as sharp as the EF 500 f/4L.

I'm totally out of my depth here, but with new super-IS, and extremely high megapixel count it may well be that ultimate sharpness may outweigh a contrast issue, that may or may not even be that bad to start with.

That said, I used this lens only on 10, 15, and 20 MP sensors.  When you are talking about a type of lens that can do things other lenses cannot, it may be pretty smart to see what enhancements the new cameras have that can minimize their weakness.  My SP 500, I believe is over 40 years old.  I'd love to mount it on a camera that his good IBIS!

-Mac


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#14
The SP 500mm f8, while not the worst mirror lens in this respect, is certainly not as sharp as any EF 500mm f4 L, so mr. Atkins was not correct writing that.
#15
(05-26-2021, 06:22 AM)Brightcolours Wrote:
(05-17-2021, 07:19 AM)davidmanze Wrote:
(05-16-2021, 09:10 PM)toni-a Wrote: If they can  make autofocus tilt and shift, it won't be  hard to make autofocus mirror lens, especially someone already did it.
Frankly I am sure they came out with something that's why they are investing there otherwise they already have the new cheap tele primes.

    I suppose the AF and IS will give them some sort of new lease of life, as the main user issues were holding a light short lens stable, whilst trying to manually focus accurately ...... which made them a struggle to use  .... 
 
 ........that only leaves the "elephant in the room ... doughnuts!" ...... and the art of trying by careful compose the shot so as to control them as much as possible ....

..... as per BC's poetic examples ........

You do get the images, Dave. Those are not about "smooth bokeh", but about what you can do with the lens. Only the one with Donna, our american Bulldog, has typical doughnut bokeh to which one could object if one wants. In some other shots, it is interesting which textures get created in the background, and they are not typical "document a flower" images, but rather about a whole composition, with light and colours.
Thanks for your thoughtful compliment, and understanding that one can embrace a lens' imperfections.

    Well, you certainly "made" some nice interesting images BC .... I like them! ... low and personal .......... "get down on it photography" ........ I call it ! ...  Smile

  I do quite a bit of it with water birds ........ although I'm noticing that the ...... "get back up again photography" aspect ....... is starting to be more of a struggle .... Smile

  ........  overall though, I'm not so sure that everyone will embrace their quirks and caprices with equal aplomb and vision as you  ....... and we may well be looking at birds standing in front of a zillion doughnuts ....... just like the old days ......

(06-14-2021, 09:09 AM)Arthur Macmillan Wrote: All I know is that I had a lot of fun with my Tamron SP 500 f/8!  In fact, I still own it.  When I bought it I originally had the Canon Rebel XTi (10 MP).  It's biggest downfall to me was not the bokeh or the contrast.  Certainly not the sharpness!  It was as Dave mentioned, really not a flaw, but a strength that caused some problems.  The lens was so small and light that one would use it without a tripod, and then blame the lens because there was motion blur.  I have been shooting birds as my main subject for about two years, but shots like the following one (if I can upload it, my internet is really shaky now).  That took me in that direction.  I honestly had no idea that this bird existed locally, and in [Image: z]

I guess I am doing it wrong!

I used the insert photo button and entered the URL for the Flickr page with the size as small as 640x360 px.

Is there a way to do this for a slightly internet challenged person?  I could just print the link, but I'm not sure if there are rules about doing that.

Also, Canon does have the 600mm and 800mm F/11.  That isn't really in the same league as the the F/stops on these new mirror lenses.  I do remember an article by Bob Atkins where he compared his Canon 500mm f/4L to the Tamron SP 500 f/8.  Bob did of course say he could not recommend any mirror lens due to the bokeh mainly.  He did however mention that color abberations were practically non-existant, and he admitted that much to his surprise the SP 500 was at least as sharp as the EF 500 f/4L.

I'm totally out of my depth here, but with new super-IS, and extremely high megapixel count it may well be that ultimate sharpness may outweigh a contrast issue, that may or may not even be that bad to start with.

That said, I used this lens only on 10, 15, and 20 MP sensors.  When you are talking about a type of lens that can do things other lenses cannot, it may be pretty smart to see what enhancements the new cameras have that can minimize their weakness.  My SP 500, I believe is over 40 years old.  I'd love to mount it on a camera that his good IBIS!

-Mac

Hi Mac ......
                  Unfortunately IBIS won't be the answer to lens shake on a 500mm FL ..... the stabilization effect will be small  ........ which is why the lens incorporates OS ....... 
  however, it will be better than no stabilization at all !!

   I still wonder whether these MLs will ever appear ??
Dave's clichés
  


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