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5DMKIII versus 7DMKII
#31
 Going back to the OP's original question,  (yes that's several arguments/ discussions back, I  know it seems like an age!)...................

 

  .........the question was............what camera the 5DMkIII or the 7D MkII?...... I believe it was answered that......

 

 

......... for portraiture full frame is the choice.........and that PD/CD AF is the  most accurate....mirror-less

 

 

 

 

        ....that only leaves the Sony in what ever model  guise suites the OP!

 

 

  

  Honestly if you can't shoot portraits with any sort of decent modern camera , your in the wrong game, take up  golf then you can blame the clubs!

Dave's clichés
#32
Quote: .........the question was............what camera the 5DMkIII or the 7D MkII?...... I believe it was answered that......



......... for portraiture full frame is the choice.........and that PD/CD AF is the most accurate....mirror-less


Who answered that? There have been suggestions of APSC and mFT as well. If I run the 45/1.8 at f/2.5 I often perceive it as to sharp. I doubt portraiture needs more resolution.
enjoy
#33
Quote:With above lenses, which you deemed a good example (the Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 and the Tokina 12-24mm f4)? PD AF is waaaay more accurate. And that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

Your 2nd question is a very leading one, and not a honest one. 

 

If you read posts on forums a lot, you will notice that very seldom there is talk about MFA in Canon FF forums (way less than for instance there is on Nikon FF forums with cameras like the D800). 

Besides that, Canon (and probably Nikon) says that MFA is there for emergencies, when you have a lens calibration issue and can't have it calibrated at that time.

 

It is also true that CD AF can deliver OOF results, and that that is not just in low light. 

 

This is getting tiresome, though. The simple fact is that (at least Canon DSLRs, but also Nikon DSLRs see Dave's experiences) can focus just fine with large aperture lenses with shallow DOF, and have no issue getting an eye in focus, not even with a 85mm f1.2, a 50mm f1.2, or a 200mm f2. And that one does NOT have to shoot several frames "in the hope that one is in focus".

 

I can't help that you have made bad gear choices, apparently, in the past. That does not excuse the FUD posts about DSLRs and PD AF in general, though.
 

Your denial is quite baffling.

 

Roger Cicala at lensrentals.com is probably the person who has the most objective and extensive testing experience in the industry. That's what they do for a living: testing body + lenses combinations in controlled environments.

 

Anyone wanting real hard fact about AF accuracy must read this article: Autofocus Reality Part 1: Center-Point, Single-Shot Accuracy

 

Here is what he says about AF microadjustments with fast lenses: The conclusion is pretty obvious: If you want to shoot wide aperture prime lenses and you don't want to use microfocus adjustment, you just refuse to cope with reality.

 

And here is the conclusion of the article:
  • LiveView (contrast-detection) AF on a still target is more accurate than phase-detection AF. It should be so. Contrast detection is using the actual sensor to determine focus; phase detection is not. Overall we found about one shot in 10 was out of focus with phase detection.
  • LiveView AF is as accurate as Roger View MF. You may be better than this, or you may not.
  • Phase-detection AF has more shot-to-shot variation than contrast detection. It's not huge, but it's real. This shouldn't surprise anyone. Phase detection was developed for fast AF speed and to detect subject movement. It wasn't developed to be more accurate.
  • Microfocus adjustment pulls good phase-detection AF results up to a par with LiveView, but it doesn't eliminate the small amount of shot-to-shot variation that phase-detection AF has.
Now, who is spreading FUD?

Why is it so difficult for you to admit that AF on a mirrorless camera is more reliable than AF on a DSLR?
--Florent

Flickr gallery
#34
Quote:Your denial is quite baffling.

 

Roger Cicala at lensrentals.com is probably the person who has the most objective and extensive testing experience in the industry. That's what they do for a living: testing body + lenses combinations in controlled environments.

 

Anyone wanting real hard fact about AF accuracy must read this article: Autofocus Reality Part 1: Center-Point, Single-Shot Accuracy

 

Here is what he says about AF microadjustments with fast lenses: The conclusion is pretty obvious: If you want to shoot wide aperture prime lenses and you don't want to use microfocus adjustment, you just refuse to cope with reality.

 

And here is the conclusion of the article:
  • LiveView (contrast-detection) AF on a still target is more accurate than phase-detection AF. It should be so. Contrast detection is using the actual sensor to determine focus; phase detection is not. Overall we found about one shot in 10 was out of focus with phase detection.
  • LiveView AF is as accurate as Roger View MF. You may be better than this, or you may not.
  • Phase-detection AF has more shot-to-shot variation than contrast detection. It's not huge, but it's real. This shouldn't surprise anyone. Phase detection was developed for fast AF speed and to detect subject movement. It wasn't developed to be more accurate.
  • Microfocus adjustment pulls good phase-detection AF results up to a par with LiveView, but it doesn't eliminate the small amount of shot-to-shot variation that phase-detection AF has.
Now, who is spreading FUD?

Why is it so difficult for you to admit that AF on a mirrorless camera is more reliable than AF on a DSLR?
You are spreading FUD. Have I said anything outrageous about mirrorless or contrast detect AF? No. I simply state the facts: that it is easily possible with a modern DSLR to get good AF accuracy results. Not with a defective lens, of course, or a lens with e very crappy AF implementation.

 

Why are you disregarding people's experiences with the 5D mk III, 1D-X for example, and Foto Magazin's well done test? Because it does not suit your story.
#35
Quote:You are spreading FUD. Have I said anything outrageous about mirrorless or contrast detect AF? No. I simply state the facts: that it is easily possible with a modern DSLR to get good AF accuracy results. Not with a defective lens, of course, or a lens with e very crappy AF implementation.

 

Why are you disregarding people's experiences with the 5D mk III, 1D-X for example, and Foto Magazin's well done test? Because it does not suit your story.
 

I never said that it is not possible with a modern DSLR to get good AF accuracy results. I'm talking about reliability. Repeatability. I said DSLR, by design, are inherently less reliable at AF accuracy than mirrorless. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

To quote my original message:

 

Now, if AF accuracy for is your main concern, you should consider mirrorless instead. AF accuracy is much more reliable and accurate than any DSLR.

 

This is exactly what Roger Cicala, and many other reliable sources say. That's quite a few people spreading FUD then.

 

Why can't you admit this simple fact: AF accuracy on a mirrorless camera is more reliable than AF on a DSLR.

Why is it so difficult for you?

 

This debate here would probably be an interesting project for a psychology study ;-)
--Florent

Flickr gallery
#36
Quote:I never said that it is not possible with a modern DSLR to get good AF accuracy results. I'm talking about reliability. Repeatability. I said DSLR, by design, are inherently less reliable at AF accuracy than mirrorless. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

To quote my original message:

 

Now, if AF accuracy for is your main concern, you should consider mirrorless instead. AF accuracy is much more reliable and accurate than any DSLR.

 

This is exactly what Roger Cicala, and many other reliable sources say. That's quite a few people spreading FUD then.

 

Why can't you admit this simple fact: AF accuracy on a mirrorless camera is more reliable than AF on a DSLR.

Why is it so difficult for you?

 

This debate here would probably be an interesting project for a psychology study ;-)
You are obviously "intent on hammering home your point" and I have no dispute with  the fact that PD/CD AF on sensor is indeed more accurate.

  But .......until it's AF is complete and "multi-functionally great in all areas" I don't see it as a step up........ it has some advantages, but still remains a more restrictive system albeit accurate.

  I'm delighted with the accuracy of the D750, in fact if you read the DPreviews section of their AF test, they actually state that the repeatability is very nearly as good as a mirror-less and they were delighted with it too,....."and"..... it packs the rest of the AF game with it.......... mirror-less doesn't or at least, not yet!

 

 The bottom line:  a lot of photographers in the fashion industry have dropped medium format for D810s and 5DRs and shooting top level work in spite of what you are saying........... and doing very well at it....... this is top pro pro kit with pro pro lenses and systems.......they've got a job to do and they get on with it..............no bullsh-t,........no excuses!..........just delivering  "the goods"!..........

 

  There is a low percentage of slightly missed shots, so what?.......... it's dealt with by taking hundreds and picking the perfect ones and setting aside the average ones and dumping the few missed focus shots.... that's the pro game..........these few missed shots don't spoil the party..... no one's willing to put up with blurred eyes there!

 

 A few like Jason Lanier are starting to use Sony A7's he's openly touting for Sony's sponsorship, openly! He's the one with his pockets full of batteries.......Oh and very few Fujis....... Big Grin  :lol:  :o  Rolleyes

 

BTW. How many shots are lost from blinking?

Dave's clichés
#37
Quote:I never said that it is not possible with a modern DSLR to get good AF accuracy results. I'm talking about reliability. Repeatability. I said DSLR, by design, are inherently less reliable at AF accuracy than mirrorless. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

To quote my original message:

 

Now, if AF accuracy for is your main concern, you should consider mirrorless instead. AF accuracy is much more reliable and accurate than any DSLR.

 

This is exactly what Roger Cicala, and many other reliable sources say. That's quite a few people spreading FUD then.

 

Why can't you admit this simple fact: AF accuracy on a mirrorless camera is more reliable than AF on a DSLR.

Why is it so difficult for you?

 

This debate here would probably be an interesting project for a psychology study ;-)
Indeed, it would be interesting to study why you so happily ignore what Foto Magazin has found, and why you pretend the AF accuracy with mirrorless is faultless.

 

Your view on things certainly seems to be coloured by your apparently bad experiences with past Pentax DSLRs and problematic D800.
#38
An interesting discussion of course, learnt a lot, however still have my question, image quality wise and focus acurace which is better 5DMKIII or 7D MKII ?

#39
My vote would be for the 5DMkIII for portraits, with a more portrait suitable depth of field and lower noise...........the 7DMkII is really most suitable as a sports camera.......................................but as you see here there's a lot of different views..

 

 As it is a camera from three years ago, there are many second hand 5DMkIIIs out there an affordable prices! 

Dave's clichés
#40
Quote:My vote would be for the 5DMkIII for portraits, with a more portrait suitable depth of field and lower noise...........the 7DMkII is really most suitable as a sports camera.......................................but as you see here there's a lot of different views..

 

 As it is a camera from three years ago, there are many second hands 5DMkIIIs out there an affordable prices! 
Exactly, that's why I am more prone to 5DMKIII

The professional photographer who did our wedding was using 5D MKIII, he called to ask me if I were interested getting it, and I am seriously considering it, he got 7D MKII as backup body and he is eagerly awaiting 5DMKIII successor rumored this year
  
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