[martind86]

martind86, I wasn't getting Sony when there was no Nikon mirrorless and I will simply not go Sony since there are close to no well working Nikon adapters available for it.

"With the sub-par AF tracking performance, it spoils the fun for me, too." I don't think you bought a Z7, so I guess you're chewing second hand "first impressions" reports. Neither AF-tracking nor other things spoil the fuin for me. So far I didn't see striping and banding, the AF is the best LV AF I've seen on a Nikon so far. I updated the Fuji firmwware a couple of times and saw what their software engineers could do. To me the version 1.00 will not be in charge for long time, hopefully. For a first throw Nikon (as well as Canon) made a lot of things right.

Nobody will sell / exchange all DSLR gear for the Z-line, it's too early.

And it was only a question of time until someone foudn a hair in the big pot of soup. Took them rather long, it's available since last Thursday...

Hi JJ So,

yes, it is the second-hand reports of course. You know, for all-around practical use, I consider the following as key aspects:  Sensor's low-light and dynamic range performance and AF tracking & AF sensitivity. When a camera (Z7) has a very low AF hit rate of just a walking person (not talking about running grayhound here) and stripping/banding in shadows, I consider it no-go. But that is me, not you, of course. 

Martin

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Z7/Z6 - stripping and banding limits the use of the great sensor's dynamic range :-(  With the sub-par AF tracking performance, it spoils the fun for me, too. 

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7-first-impressions-review/7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUii9dTwPkw  (from 5:30) 

The AF hands-on testing was done on a pre-production model, we will see if Nikon could improve opon that. 

Anyway, unless you desperately want current FF CaNikon mirorless, I would probably wait for the next generation to leave your pro DSLR setup behind. Or get Sony, the current CaNikon mirorless seems to be about a generation behind Sony in key aspects.

Dunno about Nikon, I own both Sony A6000 and 7Dmkii, when in Live view, 7Dmkii is excellent, dual pixel autofocus is a huge improvement over my ex 750D, in video tracking, it  is better than A6000. In low light 7Dmkii is easily better than Sony A6000
So I don't see how you consider Sony  a generation ahead, they might have a slight edge never tried their pro models, but difference if ever should be minimal at best.

PS: compared to 7Dmkii in SLR mode Sony A6000 is easily eaten for breakfast by 7D autofocus except for face detection

Hi Tonia,

I meant full frame mirorless cameras. A generation behind in key aspects I find in cameras, please see my post above to "jj so".

Still, it suprises me that A6000 is no competition for 7D mkII in the autofocus department. Thank you for an interesting input of a real user :-).

Good light,

Martin

[toni-a]

AFAIK Nikon are not behind when it comes to sensors, when it comes to autofocus I have no idea but surely what you said about AF doesn't apply to Canon dual pixel AF which works pretty well. at least in my own experience.

You will read everywhere that Sony A6000 sensor has better dynamic range and higher resolution than 7Dmkii sensor, however I rarely think about that or notice it, the largest prints I made this year were A4 and both give very good results, although Canon photos require less time in post processing to get the colors right.

[martind86]

AFAIK Nikon are not behind when it comes to sensors, when it comes to autofocus I have no idea but surely what you said about AF doesn't apply to Canon dual pixel AF  which works pretty well. at least  in my own experience.

You will read everywhere that Sony A6000 sensor has better dynamic range and higher resolution than 7Dmkii sensor, however I rarely think about that or notice it, the largest prints I made this year were A4 and both give very good results, although Canon photos require less time in post processing to get the colors right.

Yes, actually it really all depends on what preferences a photographer has and if he/she is able to take full advantage of specific sensor or AF benefits. Some just do not need / use it and still make breathtaking pics, that' s true. You know, I shoot a lot in relatively low light with very fast lenses for shallow depth of field and use mostly natural light only. Not only I need a great tracking AF performance with the best hit rate possible (even just for the slow, but rather erratic movements) but often I'm also  using the sensor's dynamic range to the utmost in the post process.
 Currently I'm a Nikon DSLR user, thinking of moving to mirorless esp. for AF tracking advantage but seeing the limitations (a bit critical for me) of both Canon and Nikon solution, I think I must wait. :-)

[toni-a]

AFAIK Nikon are not behind when it comes to sensors, when it comes to autofocus I have no idea but surely what you said about AF doesn't apply to Canon dual pixel AF  which works pretty well. at least  in my own experience.

You will read everywhere that Sony A6000 sensor has better dynamic range and higher resolution than 7Dmkii sensor, however I rarely think about that or notice it, the largest prints I made this year were A4 and both give very good results, although Canon photos require less time in post processing to get the colors right.

Yes, actually it really all depends on what preferences a photographer has and if he/she is able to take full advantage of specific sensor or AF benefits. Some just do not need / use it and still make breathtaking pics, that' s true. You know, I shoot a lot in relatively low light with very fast lenses for shallow depth of field and use mostly natural light only. Not only I need a great tracking AF performance with the best hit rate possible (even just for the slow, but rather erratic movements) but often I'm also  using the sensor's dynamic range to the utmost in the post process.
 Currently I'm a Nikon DSLR user, thinking of moving to mirorless esp. for AF tracking advantage but seeing the limitations (a bit critical for me) of both Canon and Nikon solution, I think I must wait. :-)

If you are not a  fan of manual focus and the vintage lenses thing and you don't need eye AF and face detection, I can see no reason going mirrorless, in your shoes I would stay with a DSLR

[martind86]

AFAIK Nikon are not behind when it comes to sensors, when it comes to autofocus I have no idea but surely what you said about AF doesn't apply to Canon dual pixel AF  which works pretty well. at least  in my own experience.

You will read everywhere that Sony A6000 sensor has better dynamic range and higher resolution than 7Dmkii sensor, however I rarely think about that or notice it, the largest prints I made this year were A4 and both give very good results, although Canon photos require less time in post processing to get the colors right.

Yes, actually it really all depends on what preferences a photographer has and if he/she is able to take full advantage of specific sensor or AF benefits. Some just do not need / use it and still make breathtaking pics, that' s true. You know, I shoot a lot in relatively low light with very fast lenses for shallow depth of field and use mostly natural light only. Not only I need a great tracking AF performance with the best hit rate possible (even just for the slow, but rather erratic movements) but often I'm also  using the sensor's dynamic range to the utmost in the post process.
 Currently I'm a Nikon DSLR user, thinking of moving to mirorless esp. for AF tracking advantage but seeing the limitations (a bit critical for me) of both Canon and Nikon solution, I think I must wait. :-)

If you are not a  fan of manual focus and the vintage lenses thing and you don't need eye AF and face detection, I can see no reason going mirrorless, in your shoes I would stay with a DSLR

 Well, what I shoot is people & children 90% of the time... So yes, I would greatly appreciate reliable and well-implemented eye-AF and face detection with reliable focus tracking even in dim light. From what I have seen so far, only Sony seems to fulfill that.. together with the best FF sensors on the market. Like I said, I had high hopes in Eos R and Nikon Z releases... I kind of don't want to buy into Sony system because they have some other quirks. But based on the people's first impressions, I'm rather skeptical here. But as we discussed here, it all comes down to individual preferences in the end, I'm sure many photographers would be perfectly fine with the first CaNikon FF mirrorless cameras :-)

[Brightcolours]

"The best sensors" give lines due to the way the PD AF is implemented, in shadows and with bright light/big apertures (the Nikon Z uses Sony sensors, and has the same issues). The compressed RAW format from Sony is flawed, introducing artifacts.

[martind86]

"The best sensors" give lines due to the way the PD AF is implemented, in shadows and with bright light/big apertures (the Nikon Z uses Sony sensors, and has the same issues). The compressed RAW format from Sony is flawed, introducing artifacts.

Yes, that is true for both Sony and Nikon mirrorless. That is not a sensor feature, though, it is the PD AF implementation. If you shoot in backlit scenarios and want to fully utilize the great dynamic range (I do :-( , it is unacceptable of course. I hope Canon can improve their dual pixel AF technology for better AF tracking (well, we will see after more proper test are done in the current R camera) in their next mirrorless camera, together with a new sensor which finally catches up with (or even overtakes) the competition, this may be my winner mirrorless camera.

The compressed RAW was an issue too but I think you have the uncompressed option now.

[JJ_SO]

Contrary to most people in this thread, I own the camera and you have to rely on second- or third hand observings. I can look at the pictures until my eyes water, I don't see stripes or bandings. I don't say it's impossible, but I say that somebody needs to blow an issue to the biggest failure ever, just for the sake of the good old DLSR being superior.

You can keep your DSLRs, no one takes them away, I also will keep mine. BUT the advantages of mirrorless are there and will help me in some situations better than a DSLR could. And mirrorless is basically not the platform to use bloody old shards which otherwise become victim of fungus, Toni-A. Your reasoning once again is of pretty limited insight, so no surprise here.

[Brightcolours]

You own a Nikon Z? Really?
The D850 is not affacted, as far as I know. It does not have the PD AF in the imaging sensor?

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You do have uncompressed option on the newest Sony bodies, yes. The result is huge RAW files.

[JJ_SO]

You own a Nikon Z? Really?
The D850 is not affacted, as far as I know. It does not have the PD AF in the imaging sensor?

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You do have uncompressed option on the newest Sony bodies, yes. The result is huge RAW files.

Since last Thursday.

No, the D850 has no PDAF in LiveView. And I have (so far) no update of Capture One to work a bit more with RAW-files. So, all I say is at the moment strictly limited to JPGs and the noise reduction at higher ISO is (in standard setting) rather strong.

The RAW compression fo Nikon is 14 bit lossless, resulting in 50-60 MB files. Fuji's uncompressed RAW is just as big  - for half the MP-output. I find the better compression is simply delete the crap and keep the better ones, but don't switch to lossy compression just to save diskspace.

And to the banding: It's not to offend you, but comparing a current Canon 5DIV or 6DII to the Z7, I rather prefer the banding than the Canon results of pulling 6 stops "out of the shadows into the light". Should affect you because for you DR is not that important...   And I 'd say only the 5DIV (form Canon) delivers similar shadow performance at +4EV like the Z7 

We'll see what the findings will be with EOS R.