(02-15-2022, 11:58 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: The R5 has great AF with animal eye tracking.
Yeah, I hear that a lot. I can believe the animal eye tracking is good. That's not the hard part. There is an aspect about the AF that worries me. This is not talked about that much, but there seems to be a tendency sometimes for the camera to focus at something beyond your subject. And these dirty little rumors have it that with a long telephoto, you are really left in limbo. With out a distance window you don't where you've ended up, and the shallow depth of field doesn't help. You might find this shooting a butterfly on some foliage in a field, say. I've heard you can try to pre-focus (which is a pain) but left on its own it will just search until the cows come home. Particularly bad if you don't own any cows!
This was from a guy shooting an R5 with an RF 100-500. And I had to dig for it. He was saying the 5D was all that and a bag of chips. Then I asked him how come he doesn't sell his 1 DX III. You'd thing I was asking him to give away his first born! He was, like, "No Way! You can ALWAYS count on the AF system to get it right!" When the R5 is good it is really good. But when the 1DX III is bad, it is great. Then he said the 5D AF is outstanding...when it is.
He did love the camera! Everyone loves the camera! But I would like to experience the system on something less pricey. If it's so good, put it in the hands of people who can't reach for their 1DX Mark III when the AF is taking the day off. I think it will be fine. But who knows?
-Mac
(02-15-2022, 07:52 PM)Arthur Macmillan Wrote: (02-15-2022, 11:58 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: The R5 has great AF with animal eye tracking.
Yeah, I hear that a lot. I can believe the animal eye tracking is good. That's not the hard part. There is an aspect about the AF that worries me. This is not talked about that much, but there seems to be a tendency sometimes for the camera to focus at something beyond your subject. And these dirty little rumors have it that with a long telephoto, you are really left in limbo. With out a distance window you don't where you've ended up, and the shallow depth of field doesn't help. You might find this shooting a butterfly on some foliage in a field, say. I've heard you can try to pre-focus (which is a pain) but left on its own it will just search until the cows come home. Particularly bad if you don't own any cows!
This was from a guy shooting an R5 with an RF 100-500. And I had to dig for it. He was saying the 5D was all that and a bag of chips. Then I asked him how come he doesn't sell his 1 DX III. You'd thing I was asking him to give away his first born! He was, like, "No Way! You can ALWAYS count on the AF system to get it right!" When the R5 is good it is really good. But when the 1DX III is bad, it is great. Then he said the 5D AF is outstanding...when it is.
He did love the camera! Everyone loves the camera! But I would like to experience the system on something less pricey. If it's so good, put it in the hands of people who can't reach for their 1DX Mark III when the AF is taking the day off. I think it will be fine. But who knows?
-Mac
AFAIK, that problem was solved two iterations of the firmware ago. I know quite a few birders using an R5, and they are all extremely happy with it.
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
I can't keep repeating this, tracking in mirrorless is excellent but first it has to lock on the subject and start tracking.
If you are in the zoo, you have this luxury, the camera will lock on the animal's eye and track.
However in the wild, the time needed to lock on the subject might mean losing your photo, a DSLR is much faster locking on your subject for the time being.
Birding, especially birds in flight , IMHO is still DSLR kingdom but I am sure mirrorles will eventually carch up, if they didn't already with flagship models
02-17-2022, 08:09 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2022, 08:16 AM by Brightcolours.)
(02-17-2022, 08:03 AM)toni-a Wrote: I can't keep repeating this, tracking in mirrorless is excellent but first it has to lock on the subject and start tracking.
If you are in the zoo, you have this luxury, the camera will lock on the animal's eye and track.
However in the wild, the time needed to lock on the subject might mean losing your photo, a DSLR is much faster locking on your subject for the time being.
Birding, especially birds in flight , IMHO is still DSLR kingdom but I am sure mirrorles will eventually carch up, if they didn't already with flagship models You are writing about the rather pedestrian EOS RP, not the R6 or R5 (or R3), Toni. Mirrorless already has caught up. And you might even have to revisit your settings on the RP? Even with my silly EOS M (Canon's first effort) it matters which AF settings I select in regards to whether or how fast the camera will lock onto a subject.
(02-15-2022, 07:52 PM)Arthur Macmillan Wrote: (02-15-2022, 11:58 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: The R5 has great AF with animal eye tracking.
Yeah, I hear that a lot. I can believe the animal eye tracking is good. That's not the hard part. There is an aspect about the AF that worries me. This is not talked about that much, but there seems to be a tendency sometimes for the camera to focus at something beyond your subject. And these dirty little rumors have it that with a long telephoto, you are really left in limbo. With out a distance window you don't where you've ended up, and the shallow depth of field doesn't help. You might find this shooting a butterfly on some foliage in a field, say. I've heard you can try to pre-focus (which is a pain) but left on its own it will just search until the cows come home. Particularly bad if you don't own any cows!
This was from a guy shooting an R5 with an RF 100-500. And I had to dig for it. He was saying the 5D was all that and a bag of chips. Then I asked him how come he doesn't sell his 1 DX III. You'd thing I was asking him to give away his first born! He was, like, "No Way! You can ALWAYS count on the AF system to get it right!" When the R5 is good it is really good. But when the 1DX III is bad, it is great. Then he said the 5D AF is outstanding...when it is.
He did love the camera! Everyone loves the camera! But I would like to experience the system on something less pricey. If it's so good, put it in the hands of people who can't reach for their 1DX Mark III when the AF is taking the day off. I think it will be fine. But who knows?
-Mac
If near to subjects are very out of focus the AF can go to the background and stop there ........ requiring manual focus ........ I have no idea if FWs solved the issue ........... DSLRs will go back and forth until the subject is found!
(02-17-2022, 10:36 AM)davidmanze Wrote: (02-15-2022, 07:52 PM)Arthur Macmillan Wrote: (02-15-2022, 11:58 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: The R5 has great AF with animal eye tracking.
Yeah, I hear that a lot. I can believe the animal eye tracking is good. That's not the hard part. There is an aspect about the AF that worries me. This is not talked about that much, but there seems to be a tendency sometimes for the camera to focus at something beyond your subject. And these dirty little rumors have it that with a long telephoto, you are really left in limbo. With out a distance window you don't where you've ended up, and the shallow depth of field doesn't help. You might find this shooting a butterfly on some foliage in a field, say. I've heard you can try to pre-focus (which is a pain) but left on its own it will just search until the cows come home. Particularly bad if you don't own any cows!
This was from a guy shooting an R5 with an RF 100-500. And I had to dig for it. He was saying the 5D was all that and a bag of chips. Then I asked him how come he doesn't sell his 1 DX III. You'd thing I was asking him to give away his first born! He was, like, "No Way! You can ALWAYS count on the AF system to get it right!" When the R5 is good it is really good. But when the 1DX III is bad, it is great. Then he said the 5D AF is outstanding...when it is.
He did love the camera! Everyone loves the camera! But I would like to experience the system on something less pricey. If it's so good, put it in the hands of people who can't reach for their 1DX Mark III when the AF is taking the day off. I think it will be fine. But who knows?
-Mac
If near to subjects are very out of focus the AF can go to the background and stop there ........ requiring manual focus ........ I have no idea if FWs solved the issue ........... DSLRs will go back and forth until the subject is found!
That's no different with mirrorless. Even my EOS R will go back and forth, but it happens almost never, because it isn't necessary - it tends to get it right the first time. With my 5D II it happened way more often, although even then only occasionally.
I have so far only encountered this with my EF 180L Macro, in close-up-/macro -modus, with adapter obviously, but that lens is notorious for it, and to be very honest, when shooting very close with a slow-focusing lens like the 180L that is to be expected. Even so, I have never had the R stop focusing,with that lens, while I did have that happen with my 5D, 5D II and a couple of APS-C bodies.
Even with EF 100-400L with 2x extender on my EIOS R, in low light, I have not encountered any problems, BTW. With RF lenses that should even be less of a problem.
Considering the number of lenses I own and owned, I reckon this is total fake news, possibly caused by people who do not know in the slightest how to set up a mirrorless Canon camera, or people who have never used one.
That's my view, and experience.
Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
I agree with Wim, I have not read anywhere that PD AF on Canon mirrorless would get "stuck" at infinity. Of course, when the camera focusses at a distance (one might call it "background" , it or course will focus... there, and not go hunt back and forth.
I came across this a while back :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L06kMSYnFO4&t=338s
It must be said that the guy is using the Canon 800mm F5.6 with a tele-converter ...... and the way to solve it is pretty easy !
02-18-2022, 08:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2022, 08:46 AM by Brightcolours.)
Thanks Dave, now it is more clear what you were trying to describe. The issue seems to be that the camera will see something closer to focus in the background and so it will not want/think to go "hunt" to the foreground because it already saw something "in focus". And the foreground subject is so OOF that no animal or eye is detected, so that won't help.
I must say that I have encountered similar "issues" with close focus/macro stuff with certain shallow DOF lenses on my DSLR too, and the work arounds appear to be the same (pre-focus within the subject range so the AF system can actually "see" the subject, for instance).
In the comments, users offer settings suggestions with the R6/R5 that help the issue, by the way.
DSLRs also have a tendency to focus at something they can see rather than something on the other end of the focus range, by the way... But perhaps the DOF with DSLRs is smaller at the AF sensor, so they have a bigger range where they can "see" subjects in the focus range, so this happens more often with mirrorless.
(02-18-2022, 08:33 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: Thanks Dave, now it is more clear what you were trying to describe. The issue seems to be that the camera will see something closer to focus in the background and so it will not want/think to go "hunt" to the foreground because it already saw something "in focus". And the foreground subject is so OOF that no animal or eye is detected, so that won't help.
I must say that I have encountered similar "issues" with close focus/macro stuff with certain shallow DOF lenses on my DSLR too, and the work arounds appear to be the same (pre-focus within the subject range so the AF system can actually "see" the subject, for instance).
In the comments, users offer settings suggestions with the R6/R5 that help the issue, by the way.
It's not a big deal at all really and I'm sure many have experienced it using very long focal length lenses + TCs ...... the cure is just to focus near to ... and away you go again ....... only a few would make a video out of it as this guy did here !!
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