[Brightcolours]

The EOS R is quite a bit bigger than an EOS M5. If your thumb also finds a way to "attach" <sic> "this Wheel", your thumb must have ulterior motives

In fact, the EOS R is more like the 6D in size and usage of real estate concerning control placement than it is like a M5.


  Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 11.23.25.png (Size: 485.63 KB / Downloads: 5)

[JJ_SO]

... If your thumb also finds a way to "attach" <sic> "this Wheel", your thumb must have ulterior motives  ...

Possibly, "touch this wheel" was a victim of autocorrection?

[Brightcolours]

The EOS R focuses at max. aperture ... understandable in low light but with sufficient light that is suboptimal with respect to RSAs.

This data represent the current state of development.
Initial reviews shows that canon eos-r AF is sub-optimal - not in pair with sony.
Initial canon statement was - We are going to release mirrorless when we can deliver ML exereance similar to DSLR. 
At this stage canon and Nikon are behind sony and for sure not in pair with Canon/Nikon SLRs  It is marketing push instead of development pull

---

Oh yeah, and the 4K is cropped for the R (which means it would work great with my EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM )

:-)
Yes you can drive your Ferrari in the city. Even more you can attach your KIA wheels to spare some cash. :-)

Now seriously

Same comments here. Canon is far behind the competition Panasonic GH 5, even the older GH 4 is beter choise, and it offer similar senoser size to Canon FF/video crop.
The old Sony 7s II is also great option.
Yes canon is making progration, they offer more than the crappy MJPG, but they are far away from the competition. Not to mention that 5 years old smartphone can take slow motion  1080p 120..180fps using H.265/H264 codec  
Yes they make progression - They discovered the articulated touchscreen. The entry level camcorders from 35 years ago had articulated flipped touchscreen. yes it was 35 years ago. well done canon

If you really are saying that filming on H264/H265 is a good thing.... means you have no idea about video. H.265/H264 are great for high compression end results, not the best for raw footage. That is why the 5D mk IV's MJPEG CODEC is so nice.
The high data rate for the EOS R (480 mpbs)with 4:2:2 10 bit is FAR superior to any smartphone, to say the least.

The GH4 doesnt offer that high data a rate 4K, the GH5s kinda does, is more expensive and will never offer FF stills.

Do you know ANY APS-C photo camera with flip out swivel screen, in-camera C-Log and capable of outputting uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 4K UHD through HDMI with C-log gamma applied..... And that for $2200.

Now seriously, indeed.

[JJ_SO]

Do you know ANY APS-C photo camera with flip out swivel screen, in-camera C-Log and capable of outputting uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 4K UHD through HDMI with C-log gamma applied..... And that for $2200.

Now seriously, indeed.

I'm afraid, X-T3 ticks most of that boxes. For 1600.- if you don't mind getting a cheaper body and the halfway tilt-swivel LCD. Jordan is in looooove with it. + in camera film profiles for quick footage, native (sort of affordable) movie lenses and a modern USB 3.1 connector to export the footage, triple batteries, face detection while recording... Fuji has done a good job in adding rather modern features.

[Brightcolours]

Do you know ANY APS-C photo camera with flip out swivel screen, in-camera C-Log and capable of outputting uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 4K UHD through HDMI with C-log gamma applied..... And that for $2200.

Now seriously, indeed.

I'm afraid, X-T3 ticks most of that boxes. For 1600.- if you don't mind getting a cheaper body and the halfway tilt-swivel LCD. Jordan is in looooove with it. + in camera film profiles for quick footage, native (sort of affordable) movie lenses and a modern USB 3.1 connector to export the footage, triple batteries, face detection while recording... Fuji has done a good job in adding rather modern features.

I forgot about the new X-T3. It does tick some boxes indeed, 400mpbs vs 480 mbps is not a big difference. It does offer f-log (apparently not the greatest, easiest to grade log, but nice it is there) 10 bit internal but oddly enough only 4:2:0? Externally 4:2:2.

The halfway LCD movement implementation is a minus point, the AF seems to be pretty good for video purposes too. 

Even if it does not beat everything the EOS R offers exactly, it does offer a big plus: less rolling shutter jello. Nice to see that Fuji is making big steps.

[JJ_SO]

Well, for video it's not that bad to have only a tilt display - usually only smartphone users do video in portrait mode. It would be nice to see the LCD to the side, or for vloggers in selfie mode, but I miss the tilt-swivel display mostly in still photography.

Serious videographers will estimate a bigger display (on a rig or in hotshoe with a ballhead) or something like Atomos. It would be cool if these displays could also hold a loupe - or, even better, if more cameras would offer an articulated EVF like Fuji GFX50. I'm wondering if they continue this concept with the upcoming GFX100.

[martind86]

Let me put a realistic & pragmatic view here: 

1) Obsolete sensor. No, it is not bad but when you look where the competition moved over the years (better low light, DR, rolling shutter...), putting a five-year old sensor (I mean performance-wise and sensor architecture-wise) from Mark IV into the new release of the whole new camera concept is quite embarrassing. 

2) Autofocus. 8fps without continual focus, so what for then ? Yes, 5fps with servo but based on first experiences, the 5fps is "hit & miss", the only acceptable amount of sharp shots is in  '3FPS tracking priority mode'. Quite tragic, mainly because if you put Canon EF mount glass to A7III, it works in 5 and 8 fps so better than with Canon. Eye AF, which is most useful in continual focus, doesnt work in continual focus with Canon, silent shooting doesn't work in continual either. There is no joystick, focus point selection is controlled via the touchscreen which is laggy and makes for frustrating experience. 

3) 1 SD card slot. SD cards are most prone to failure so putting a singe SD card slot here is just no-go for any (semi)pro. 

4) Video. 4K video is the same 1.8 crop as in 5D mark iv. Plus the electronic IBIS makes it 2.0 crop so the size of 4/3 sensor. For this reason, you can see the limited ISO range. I just cannot see how they can aim at vloggers with this. It is much better for them to buy cheap Panasonic with 4k and they don't need to bother with FF lenses. 120fps in HD? Please, it is 2018 and not 2015. 

5) The benefit of 'protecting a sensor behind the shutter from dust'. Well, not only is the fragile and expensive shutter exposed to an easy damage (certainly much easier to damage than unwanted touch of the sensor) but here is a question for big thinkers: What happens if you press the shutter after the dust was 'luckily' caught by the shutter? 

6) One of the key mirorless benefits should be compact size and lower weight which you certainly cannot tell about the 28-70/2 and 50/1.2 lenses (the crazy high prices putting aside). I know the primary reason for the existence of these particular lenses is 'bragging rights' but still I like the Nikon's lens roadmap with 1.8 primes better.  

7) This all goes for 2500 EUR, quite more expensive than Nikon and Sony. No, thank you. If I needed or wanted a FF mirorless solution today and looked at things realistically, I would still have to pick up Sony primarily for its practical results (mainly in the important AF area) and lens offer. I think both Canon and Nikon missed their first shot maybe except for stopping a migration of Canon and Nikon users to Sony/Fuji. And maybe that was the primary reason for their FF mirorless release anyway.

[davidmanze]

Part of the my dottyness........is because I just cannot read a block of print like the one above......it does my eyes in!

Paragraphs please?

[davidmanze]

The EOS R focuses at max. aperture ... understandable in low light but with sufficient light that is suboptimal with respect to RSAs.

This data represent the current state of development.
Initial reviews shows that canon eos-r AF is sub-optimal - not in pair with sony.
Initial canon statement was - We are going to release mirrorless when we can deliver ML exereance similar to DSLR. 
At this stage canon and Nikon are behind sony and for sure not in pair with Canon/Nikon SLRs  It is marketing push instead of development pull

---

Oh yeah, and the 4K is cropped for the R (which means it would work great with my EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM )

:-)
Yes you can drive your Ferrari in the city. Even more you can attach your KIA wheels to spare some cash. :-)

Now seriously

Same comments here. Canon is far behind the competition Panasonic GH 5, even the older GH 4 is beter choise, and it offer similar senoser size to Canon FF/video crop.
The old Sony 7s II is also great option.
Yes canon is making progration, they offer more than the crappy MJPG, but they are far away from the competition. Not to mention that 5 years old smartphone can take slow motion  1080p 120..180fps using H.265/H264 codec  
Yes they make progression - They discovered the articulated touchscreen. The entry level camcorders from 35 years ago had articulated flipped touchscreen. yes it was 35 years ago. well done canon

If you really are saying that filming on H264/H265 is a good thing.... means you have no idea about video. H.265/H264 are great for high compression end results, not the best for raw footage. That is why the 5D mk IV's MJPEG CODEC is so nice.
The high data rate for the EOS R (480 mpbs)with 4:2:2 10 bit is FAR superior to any smartphone, to say the least.

The GH4 doesnt offer that high data a rate 4K, the GH5s kinda does, is more expensive and will never offer FF stills.

Do you know ANY APS-C photo camera with flip out swivel screen, in-camera C-Log and capable of outputting uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 4K UHD through HDMI with C-log gamma applied..... And that for $2200.

Now seriously, indeed.

  I think it's worth bringing to light that your beloved 4K MJPEG codec which maybe technically better............

     ........is totally "unbeloved" by just about everybody else......

  ......and consistently flouting it as the best thing since sliced bread is falling on deaf ears in the video world......

   Nobody wants it in "their" camera......not even 5D MkIV users!

[Brightcolours]

The EOS R focuses at max. aperture ... understandable in low light but with sufficient light that is suboptimal with respect to RSAs.

This data represent the current state of development.
Initial reviews shows that canon eos-r AF is sub-optimal - not in pair with sony.
Initial canon statement was - We are going to release mirrorless when we can deliver ML exereance similar to DSLR. 
At this stage canon and Nikon are behind sony and for sure not in pair with Canon/Nikon SLRs  It is marketing push instead of development pull

---

Oh yeah, and the 4K is cropped for the R (which means it would work great with my EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM )

:-)
Yes you can drive your Ferrari in the city. Even more you can attach your KIA wheels to spare some cash. :-)

Now seriously

Same comments here. Canon is far behind the competition Panasonic GH 5, even the older GH 4 is beter choise, and it offer similar senoser size to Canon FF/video crop.
The old Sony 7s II is also great option.
Yes canon is making progration, they offer more than the crappy MJPG, but they are far away from the competition. Not to mention that 5 years old smartphone can take slow motion  1080p 120..180fps using H.265/H264 codec  
Yes they make progression - They discovered the articulated touchscreen. The entry level camcorders from 35 years ago had articulated flipped touchscreen. yes it was 35 years ago. well done canon

If you really are saying that filming on H264/H265 is a good thing.... means you have no idea about video. H.265/H264 are great for high compression end results, not the best for raw footage. That is why the 5D mk IV's MJPEG CODEC is so nice.
The high data rate for the EOS R (480 mpbs)with 4:2:2 10 bit is FAR superior to any smartphone, to say the least.

The GH4 doesnt offer that high data a rate 4K, the GH5s kinda does, is more expensive and will never offer FF stills.

Do you know ANY APS-C photo camera with flip out swivel screen, in-camera C-Log and capable of outputting uncompressed 10 bit 4:2:2 4K UHD through HDMI with C-log gamma applied..... And that for $2200.

Now seriously, indeed.

  I think it's worth bringing to light that your beloved 4K MJPEG codec which maybe technically better............

     ........is totally "unbeloved" by just about everybody else......

  ......and consistently flouting it as the best thing since sliced bread is falling on deaf ears in the video world......

   Nobody wants it in "their" camera......not even 5D MkIV users!

No, MJPEG is beloved by professionals, actually.